Missile Oil Drain Hose and fitting

[Rspencer612]

Missile owners, what attachment and hose do I I need to do the oil change?  Not very much space between that drain valve and the exhaust.  Wow it’s tight. Can’t even fit my hand in there!

[carusoam]

Let’s see if @Seth is around (Missile question, oil drain access)

-a-

[1980Mooney]

3 hours ago, Rspencer612 said:

Missile owners, what attachment and hose do I I need to do the oil change?  Not very much space between that drain valve and the exhaust.  Wow it’s tight. Can’t even fit my hand in there!

Your plane should have come with the quick drain male adapter (90 degree with a slightly bent  about 1 foot aluminum tube and about 2 ft flex poly tube) as well as a specially cut “battery board” to slide the battery box out of the tail. Rocket provided both as part of the conversion. 
 

I will look for the info on the drain.  There are topics and a template on MS for the battery Board if it is missing also. 
 

I saw some topics here a couple years ago saying they bought a drain line from Rocket for slightly less than $400 including shipping. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by 1980Mooney

[1980Mooney]

5 hours ago, Rspencer612 said:

Missile owners, what attachment and hose do I I need to do the oil change?  Not very much space between that drain valve and the exhaust.  Wow it’s tight. Can’t even fit my hand in there!

It is manufactured by Auto-Valve, Inc. per Rocket Engineering STC.  This is not an off the shelf item.  You should have the documentation for the Missile conversion from Rocket which includes at least 4 STC's - more depending if they installed JPI or standby vacuum.  You should have STC SE00223SE.pdf

Products - Auto-Valve, Inc. | Dayton, OH (autovalve.com)

Edited January 28, 2022 by 1980Mooney

[1980Mooney]

5 hours ago, Rspencer612 said:

Missile owners, what attachment and hose do I I need to do the oil change?  Not very much space between that drain valve and the exhaust.  Wow it’s tight. Can’t even fit my hand in there!

Back in April you started a Missile CG and GW topic.  I posted the STC's for the Missile there.   

When the A&P's change my oil they don't always need my drain line adapter.  They must have some universal device.  

Did yours get lost since the last oil change?

 

[Rspencer612]

16 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Back in April you started a Missile CG and GW topic.  I posted the STC's for the Missile there.   

When the A&P's change my oil they don't always need my drain line adapter.  They must have some universal device.  

Did yours get lost since the last oil change?

 

My plane was a barn find, no logs. 
 

it did not come with a drain or battery board. I have the battery board design. As for the drain, last oil change I had it done by mechanic, no clue what he used. I am doing my own now, so need a/the solution. Haha. I hate the idea of a $400 solution, but if that’s it, ok. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Rspencer612

[Rspencer612]

I’m thinking this may be what I need locally for $80!  A $.50 part for $80 that’s 3d printed. Lol. Gotta love it. 
 

https://bogertaviation.com/products/oil-quick-drain-probe-90-degree

[1980Mooney]

23 minutes ago, philip_g said:

I can't tell if that's right or not. The rocket drain is like a piece of aluminum tube that pushes inside the quick drain to open it and some fingers on the outside to hold it in place. If the missile has the same drain, I don't know. Here's the rocket one. Obviously no bend like yours would need.

 

Negative.  I can assure you that it has to be a right angle turn to clear the heat exchanger.

[1980Mooney]

56 minutes ago, Rspencer612 said:

I’m thinking this may be what I need locally for $80!  A $.50 part for $80 that’s 3d printed. Lol. Gotta love it. 
 

https://bogertaviation.com/products/oil-quick-drain-probe-90-degree

@Rspencer612

Yes this looks like it should work.  The STC requires BJ107R.  I think the difference is the longer rigid tube.  I think the rigid tube  gives you leverage to pop it on so you don’t have to stick your hand in there  

"The second improvement is the compactness of the probe. It is actually shorter than the BJ 107B making it easier to install.

Valve this attaches to has 5/8-18 threads and fits the drain holes of most Teledyne Continental engines

**Suitable for PA28R-201, PA28R-201T and others having close clearance issues between the AVI valve and engine mount tubes.

09M-PRB90 REPLACES FOLLOWING PNS 

• Piper PN 481-359
• Beechcraft PN 107-B
• Auto Valve Inc. AVI-BJ-107B

• 
• 

Edited January 28, 2022 by 1980Mooney

[Rspencer612]

30 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

@Rspencer612

Yes this looks like it should work.  The STC requires BJ107R.  I think the difference is the longer rigid tube.  I think the rigid tube  gives you leverage to pop it on so you don’t have to stick your hand in there  

"The second improvement is the compactness of the probe. It is actually shorter than the BJ 107B making it easier to install.

Valve this attaches to has 5/8-18 threads and fits the drain holes of most Teledyne Continental engines

**Suitable for PA28R-201, PA28R-201T and others having close clearance issues between the AVI valve and engine mount tubes.

09M-PRB90 REPLACES FOLLOWING PNS 

• Piper PN 481-359
• Beechcraft PN 107-B
• Auto Valve Inc. AVI-BJ-107B

• 
• 

I'm going to order it and give it a shot!

[1980Mooney]

While you are doing the oil change look closely at the engine mount especially near the high temperature heat shields. Look at the Adel clamp bushings for deterioration. The engine mount was custom built and powder coated by Rocket. The tubes are 3 different sizes/thicknesses and oil filled.  The wall thicknesses are around 0.050 inch or less. A 10% loss of metal renders the plane non-airworthy. That is only .005 inches or less of corrosion depending on the tube. 
 

Rocket is still supporting and repairing the mounts.  Mine needed 3 tubes repaired. they have to repowder coat it. Repair cost was $2,960 plus $400 shipping each way for a total of $3,760. It took Rocket 3 months including shipping.
 

The shop cost to remove and reinstall the prop, engine and mount was much much more. I had a fight with the A&P on the hours billed. Of course they will say that they have never seen or worked on a Missile before (and yes it is totally different from an ovation which has 4 isolation mounts vs 6 for the Missile)  Add in 6 new Barry mounts too.  You will be looking at the annual from hell.  

Edited January 28, 2022 by 1980Mooney

[1980Mooney]

5 hours ago, philip_g said:

I guess you didn't read this part.

Obviously no bend like yours would need.

 

I'm not blind. I can see it needs a bend.

It is a right angle fitting on the Missile. The pipe is not bent. The pipe is straight coming out of the fitting. It has about a 10 degree bend about half way 

Edited January 29, 2022 by 1980Mooney

[Rspencer612]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:33 PM, 1980Mooney said:

While you are doing the oil change look closely at the engine mount especially near the high temperature heat shields. Look at the Adel clamp bushings for deterioration. The engine mount was custom built and powder coated by Rocket. The tubes are 3 different sizes/thicknesses and oil filled.  The wall thicknesses are around 0.050 inch or less. A 10% loss of metal renders the plane non-airworthy. That is only .005 inches or less of corrosion depending on the tube. 
 

Rocket is still supporting and repairing the mounts.  Mine needed 3 tubes repaired. they have to repowder coat it. Repair cost was $2,960 plus $400 shipping each way for a total of $3,760. It took Rocket 3 months including shipping.
 

The shop cost to remove and reinstall the prop, engine and mount was much much more. I had a fight with the A&P on the hours billed. Of course they will say that they have never seen or worked on a Missile before (and yes it is totally different from an ovation which has 4 isolation mounts vs 6 for the Missile)  Add in 6 new Barry mounts too.  You will be looking at the annual from hell.  

My engine mount has only 500 hours on it since rebuilt by Rocket 10 years ago.  Looks solid

[Rspencer612]

Well, The bogert $80 3d printed drain worked, but it isn't without hardship.  I had to loosen the heat shroud around the muffler, rotate it as far as it would go, and it was BARELY enough.  Had to kind of rotate the quick drain onto the sump drain, then use my small pry bar to push it up engaging the drain and the O-ring seal in the Bogert drain.  Small pry bar was simply because the space is too small to get fingers into.  once on, the pry bar came out and it holds itself on well without any leaking.  Drains steadily and took about 10 minutes.  I punched a hole in the top of the oil filter to get good top down drainage.  Removing the Bogert quick drain isn't easy either.  Again there is just no room to get your hands in there, and its rubber o ring hold on well.  so used the pry bar apply light down pressure on both side and it popped off.  rotate it and fish it out, and viola, its over!  lol  New filter, Safety wire, 10 quarts of Phillips Victory 20W50, cowls on and we are good to go for another 35-50 hours!  It took me a solid 3.5 hours from pulling it out, running it to get it warm and mixed, back in, the above process including take oil analysis sample, pulling it out again, run and leak test, back in, and cowl it up.  I am sure it will get a bit faster after this one, but its by far the most difficult oil change plane I have ever owned.  Going to need to look at what I could change to make it more simple........

 

On another note, Anyone in the missile's or Continental Ovations running a quart of Marvel Mystery oil mixed?  I haven't done this in awhile, But it sure seemed to help with Carbon build up and lead deposits when I used to in my twin comanche!  Thanks

Edited February 7, 2022 by Rspencer612
added 4th picture

[A64Pilot]

Has anyone tried to suck the oil out like you do on a boat? Straw like a refrigerator ice maker line goes down the dip stick hole and is connected to a vacuum pump.

[Rspencer612]

33 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Has anyone tried to suck the oil out like you do on a boat? Straw like a refrigerator ice maker line goes down the dip stick hole and is connected to a vacuum pump.

Good question, If it was effective at getting it all, and not horribly priced, I would totally like that!  Dont even have to remove the cowls!

[carusoam]

The challenge of using non-standard approaches to things…

you won’t have the experience of others to borrow…

Visit the EAA sites you might pick up some broad quirky experience that way…

There is plenty of ancient info on oil additives like MMO…

Try using google for the search of small words…

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

An inexpensive Marine oil change pump is this one, the way it works is you put the tube down the dip stick and pump, it pumps the air out much faster than oil comes in, so you just wait until you hear it gurgle, move the tube around a little to see if you can get any more.

The tank is graduated, if you know the engine holds eight quarts and you only get five out, we’ll then it didn’t work. This one only holds seven quarts, so you may have to empty it and repeat, or get a more expensive larger one, of course spend more and it’s an electric pump, but this works fine, I used one for years on a sailboat

But for $80, I’d give it a try, other than $80, what do have to lose?

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--manual-oil-changer-6-9-quart--11047123?recordNum=1

Edited February 8, 2022 by A64Pilot

[VWInc]

Sorry to resurrect this, but I too purchased a mooney in the "lacking of helpful parts" category. ( it did come with a plywood battery table tho). Where would I acquire a quick drain for a Rocket (this thread is the first one I've seen). Is it possible to make one? It looks so simple.

Would this work:

https://bogertaviation.com/products/oil-quick-drain-probe-180-degree?_pos=1&_sid=c6f9ddc1f&_ss=r

 

I am also intrigued by the vacuum idea. Has anyone tried it yet? Keeping the cowling on would be payment enough!

Edited October 28, 2023 by VWInc

[Fly Boomer]

10 hours ago, VWInc said:

Sorry to resurrect this, but I too purchased a mooney in the "lacking of helpful parts" category. ( it did come with a plywood battery table tho). Where would I acquire a quick drain for a Rocket (this thread is the first one I've seen). Is it possible to make one? It looks so simple.

Would this work:

Not sure about the Bogert, but I read that 1/2-inch OD plastic pipe is the right size to fit into the quick drain used by Rocket.  I bought a length, but my mechanic has been changing the oil, and used his own adapter (I didn't see it).  The only thing I wonder about is whether the plastic pipe would stay attached to the quick drain while draining.  The adapter provided by Rocket had a couple of "fingers" that grip the outside of the quick drain.  My plan was to cut the plastic pipe so that it would protrude about four inches into a somewhat-larger hole I would cut in the lid to a 5-gallon bucket.  I was going to insert one end into the lid of the bucket, then insert the other end into the quick drain, and secure it in place by laying vice grips on the bucket lid and clamping them onto the pipe.  The tension on the vice grips would only need to be enough to keep the pipe engaged with the quick drain.

One final word:  If you try this, be sure to use plastic pipe that is 1/2-inch Outside Diameter.  You will have to measure it, because the person wearing the orange apron won't have a clue.