M20J 201 Engine TBO

[Brad737]

Hello, all.

I’m currently shopping for an economical cruiser to commute ~300 miles.  I’d been considering the 231/252, but for that short of a distance, the difference in speed versus a 201 would only amount to a few minutes each way. I know the TBO on the IO-360 in the 201 is 2000 hours. Do they tend to make it to TBO?  I’ve found a well-outfitted 201 I like, but the engine is around 1750 hours. Compressions are 75,75,78,76.  Does overhaul still run around $30k?

 Thanks, Brad 

[OR75]

I don’t know if they all make TBO, but mine is at close to 2400 hours and still running strong . I will know the compression / oil analysis in a few days as my annual is due. 
my sense is that accessories (fuel pump , governor, magneto , …) will require overhaul first and it may make sense for me to overhaul the engine rather than throw money here and there at accessories 

[KSMooniac]

With very regular use and oil changes, they should go to TBO and beyond. Cam and lifter corrosion (then destruction) is the Achilles heel. Any significant down time can start that time bomb... It got me in my previous overhaul, although I got a bit over 2100 hours SMOH before I lost a cam lobe so it didn't owe me much more. I opted for the centrilube STC mod when I overhauled and hope that helps. I fly regularly as well, and use Camguard. I wish the DLC lifters were available when I overhauled as they likely fix the issue.

For a 300 mile trip, I agree a J is a better choice unless you find an under-valued K. As an experienced owner, I would rather buy an appropriately priced Mooney with a higher time engine (ie discounted) and plan to overhaul to my specs on my timeline. Buying a low time engine these days is still a crap-shoot IMO, so I'd rather take care of it myself. YMMV

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[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Brad737 said:

Does overhaul still run around $30k?

Unfortunately I don't think anything costs $30,000 anymore. 

Although this thread is not about a 201 it give you an idea of what a 4 cylinder overhaul cost even though he had a very reasonable mechanic who did the removal and re-install.

 

[toto]

4 hours ago, Brad737 said:

Does overhaul still run around $30k?

Overhaul costs can vary widely. A field overhaul by a local mechanic vs ship it to a name-brand shop vs factory overhaul. I can’t imagine the low end of this being under 15k and the high end is in the 30s from Lycoming.

[FLYFST]

Brad,
As others on this thread have already responded, there is a quite a bit of variance in overhaul prices, and that is assuming no nasty surprises like a cracked crankcase or problems with the crank shaft, none of which are typically included in overhaul quotes.

As also mentioned by others, there are other costs that typically get quickly added and you should consider when budgeting, such as: replacing the muffler and/or entire exhaust system; overhauling or at least flushing the prop governor and oil cooler; replacing the hoses; replacing the engine mounts; replacing or overhauling the starter and alternator; the cost to remove, ship (round trip) and reinstall the engine; and of course there is always the “might as well fix this now expenses”.

These additional costs will vary depending on the condition of the aircraft and engine accessories , but with 1750 hrs on the engine, they are something to consider as they can easily add $10k to $20K or more to the cost of just the overhaul. Also keep in mind that supply chain problems are presently causing delays in parts availability, so expect delays in completing the project from whatever you are promised.

Good luck with your efforts - Hank


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[231LV]

well, I am flying the TSIO-360 so its really not apples to apples but I can tell you on a relative basis, the final cost of overhaul (Ly-Con Engine rebuilders) equaled a factory reman so hope for the low end but plan on the high end...

[Bartman]

I flew the $$$$ out of my J with IO-360 from acquisition at 700 SMOH until about 1950 hrs. Field overhaul was less than 20k, but I turned every wrench on removal and installation with proper signoff. 

[carusoam]

So many great questions…

Each one deserves its own discussion…

From / to…

1) Distance… 300 great for a J.  Lots of climb and descent if aiming for the FLs in a K

2) Economical commuting… most simple power plant, LOP, cruise, long distance to TBO….

3) Most economical annuals… J by a hair…

4) Best original panels for the job… M20Ks were often loaded with everything as they left the factory… ancient history.

5) Who uses hard economic logic when shopping for a plane?

6) The coolest plane for the job… M20K, with STCs from Rocket Engineering and TKS… and a prop from MT.

7) If you fly left seat in a B747 as your day job… and your kids are out of college… Go Acclaim!  
 

8) Engine health and cylinder health are two different measurements… compressions tell you about the cylinders, so does a dental camera…

9) Flying weekly is great for engine health…

10) OHs…  come in several different flavors… new, factory remanufactured, factory overhauled, overhauled, and repaired as necessary… pay more, get more, sometimes….

11) First plane ownership experience… keep it simple.  Selling an M20J is as easy as it gets…

12) Knowing how the engine has been run, and cared for is the most important part of knowing if a high time engine will go the distance… sitting in a hangar for extended periods of time is not a good sign…

PP thoughts only,

 

-a-

[MooneyMike]

Regarding meeting TBO, there are more issues than engine compression and oil burn.  Things like crankshaft counterweights.

When I bought my J it had a high time engine that ran great, had good compressions, low oil burn, fuel flow to specs and in every regard was a great engine.  But during an annual the MSC said "it has a vibration we cannot balance with prop weights." 

Friend of mine is an expert on rotating machinery vibration, so we glued a 3 - axis set of accelerometers and logged the data.  It had 1 ips vibration and a good engine can be balanced to be in the range of about .2 ips.

I talked to quite a few people (engine builders, etc.) and their thought was the tungsten counterweights in the crankshaft start moving and cause the vibration. 

The fix is to tear it down and rebuild the crank.  I opted for factory new as at the time I had a good core and with the economy in meltdown it was available with minimum downtime.

I bought the airplane with a high time engine, and knew repair or replacement was in the future.  It just came sooner than I wished.

Moral of the story is if the plane looks good, have the balance checked during the pre-buy.

Mike