Checkride with no right seat brakes

[D.Munios]

Hello,

new to mooneyspace and just purchased 64’ M20C with a partner who is a student pilot.  I was looking for advice whether it’s worth installing right seat brakes for checkride purposes or if he should just take his private in a rental aircraft.  An old friend of mine used to be a DPE and he said he wouldn’t do a checkride without right seat brakes and I was wondering if that’s a FAA thing or just personal. From what I been reading seems like a few of you have done checkrides in mooneys without right seat brakes. 

[WaynePierce]

The Cherokee I got my PPL in 11 years ago did not have passenger side brakes. I guess it depends on the DPE and perhaps the relationship the DPE has with the CFI?

 

[Utah20Gflyer]

I haven’t done a checkride in my Mooney yet but did 10 hours of transition training with no brakes for the instructor.   I guess I could see why a DPE might not like the combination of Private Pilot candidate, a Mooney and no brakes but if the person can’t be trusted to use the brakes then you probably shouldn’t be flying with them in the first place.   Most of the ways you die in an airplane don’t involve the brakes. 

[kortopates]

It's all personal preference. Of course neither a CFI nor DPE is required to work with you. Just like you won't want to work with just any CFI.
That said the bigger challenge is finding a DPE comfortable to do the test in a Mooney, not all will do it. Perhaps the bigger challenge is finding a Mooney qualified CFI willing to work with a student pilot without right side brakes. Expect no one will take that step at zero time until the student has demonstrated proficiency in at least taxing, if not both taxing and landing in a trainer. Runway length will play into CFI's consideration of when to transition to the Mooney - at least it does for me.
But I doubt the brakes will be a big concern for a DPE otherwise comfortable in the plane. He/She is not the PIC on the checkride.


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[Bob E]

Rental aircraft. Much cheaper and much less hassle.

A student pilot shouldn't be doing a checkride for a PPL in a complex aircraft anyway.

[Hank]

I took my PPL checkride in a 172 with dual brakes. Then almost immediately bought the Mooney, left brakes only. Since then, I did 15 hours Transition Training; attended two MAPA SF PPP classes; trained with CFII; took and passed IFR checkride in my Mooney. Also had several flight reviews.

No one has ever declined to go. 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, WaynePierce said:

The Cherokee I got my PPL in 11 years ago did not have passenger side brakes. I guess it depends on the DPE and perhaps the relationship the DPE has with the CFI?

 

Older Cherokees with no toe brakes on the right is very common and checkrides are given in them every day. But a Cherokee hand brake is a good substitute. I even used to  fly an older Comanche with the hand brake being the only brake. But it's not a good Mooney comparison because they work differently. The Mooney has a "parking" brake. It holds the pressure already applied with the toes. The Cherokee one applies break pressure in the same way the toes do  - a little or a lot (although not differentially). 

[midlifeflyer]

There was an old question about whether the "dual controls" required for flight instruction included brakes. The FAA said it does not. I suspect most DPEs won't have a problem with the lack of toe brakes on the right. At that point, the pilot probably has used theirs enough not to raise any concerns. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Bob E said:

Rental aircraft. Much cheaper and much less hassle.

A student pilot shouldn't be doing a checkride for a PPL in a complex aircraft anyway.

Why?  The USAF seems to use more complex aircraft than a Mooney.

[D.Munios]

Thanks for the helpful info. 

[RLCarter]

4 hours ago, Hank said:

Then almost immediately bought the Mooney, right brakes only.

Right brakes only?, asking for a friend 

[Immelman]

Personally I would suggest doing the ride in a rental and then going on from there. I am not a DPE and only an inactive CFI, though.

I did my CFI initial ride in the right seat (no brakes) of my Mooney without any issues. Examiner and I swapped control as needed....different ball of wax.

[Hank]

50 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

Right brakes only?, asking for a friend 

oops . . . .

[Jeph357]

I took my checkride in my Mooney. No right side brakes. I had my 150 at the time also but preferred the Mooney personally. Depends on DPE, guess soloing to the checkride and the hours logged was enough for him to feel like I knew when and how to use the brakes.  DPE I did my checkride with biggest concern was no shoulder harness. He had some hooker harnesses that used the seat belts in the back. Bought a pair until I installed the shoulder harnesses. 

[Rocket 305]

Hello @D.Munios, welcome to the Mooney community. Do the check ride in the airplane you're most comfortable flying. I did my instrument, commercial, and CFI rides in my plane with only left seat brakes. And, as others have said, assuming you have a CFI able to do the training, the DPE will decide if they are willing to do the brakes. Just consider that the Johnson bar requires some technique to operate properly, unlike simply throwing the gear switch and not exceed the V_lo/V_le speeds.

I checked into right seat brakes and it was going to be $5k plus many pounds deducted from useful. I might have parted with the cash but I wasn't going to give up any useful load and any price. Besides the check ride, there was very little value to be had.

[midlifeflyer]

6 hours ago, Rocket 305 said:

Do the check ride in the airplane you're most comfortable flying.

We have a winner! 
 

[N201MKTurbo]

I did my instrument and commercial checkrides in my Mooney. Brakes were never mentioned in either case.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I did my instrument and commercial checkrides in my Mooney. Brakes were never mentioned in either case.

I find it difficult to  even imagine a DPE refusing an instrument or commercial ride due to lack of right seat brakes. 

[201er]

12 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Why?  The USAF seems to use more complex aircraft than a Mooney.

What is it with this obsession with comparing Air Force to Mooneys? One is a profession with daily training at the peak of their youth and the other is weekend warriors enjoying their hobby. There's no comparison. Most of us have families and jobs where we spend most of our time, and flying is just one more thing we do.

[A64Pilot]

Reading through this is interesting,  a few comments

A great many aircraft, I’d say a majority don’t have right seat brakes, and right seat brakes are nothing compared to say a single Yoke Bonanza

When you took your driving test, did your car have a second set of controls?

Then the Military comment, as a Retired Military Aviator who has also done significant civilian training I can tell you the two have very little in common.

I concur that someone should take their Private in a simple aircraft, and should acquire significant time in one then move onto a complex, then instrument and commercial.

The reasons why are pretty easily seen by looking at insurence rates, they pretty closely reflect accident rates don’t they?

[Browncbr1]

I’ve done many checkrides in my mooney without right brakes.  Even did my CFI ride in it.    

[Guest]

4 hours ago, 201er said:

What is it with this obsession with comparing Air Force to Mooneys? One is a profession with daily training at the peak of their youth and the other is weekend warriors enjoying their hobby. There's no comparison. Most of us have families and jobs where we spend most of our time, and flying is just one more thing we do.

Far too many people here spout how difficult a Mooney is to fly, “don’t do this, don’t do that in a Mooney”.  Only a super human pilot with God himself as the CFI is qualified to teach you to fly a Mooney.  

My comment was in response to the comment that a student shouldn’t be doing a PPL check ride in a Mooney.  Said student pilot is one flight from attaining the PPL, are they really still unqualified to fly a Mooney?  
 

Clarence

[N201MKTurbo]

You know you can do your private in a 787. But then again, they have dual brakes.

Now that we are on this tangent, can you get a VFR type rating in a 787?

[jaylw314]

I don't recall the DPE for either my PPL or IFR even asking about brakes.  Is that even a thing??  I mean, they allow you to do a checkride in planes with throwover controls, right?  I imagine not having a yoke in front of you would be a bigger worry!

[kortopates]

99% of Private pilot checkrides are done in trainers like a C150/172 or PA28 - all with co-pilot brakes.
But it's still a bigger issue for the CFI than the DPE.


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