87 J panel upgrade; ideas welcome

[sleeper-319]

Bought my ‘87 J and got it flying this past June. Great plane, dated panel. I’ve got about 60 hours on it now, and my plan was to fly it for a year and use that time to figure out what I want in a panel upgrade, but a few things starting to fail have me thinking about upgrading sooner.

The attached pic is current, and of the pictured equipment, the GEM and the AI are starting to fail. The KAP 100 AP is malfunctioning as of today, but that may be related to the AI starting to fail (couldn’t find definitive info in the book). I had an STEC System 60 pitch stabilizer that’s also failed, but the control head is not currently installed. That’s the hole below the throttle).

So the plan… I definitely want a IFR capable navigator, and I like the GTN750s I’ve flown with. And with the AI starting to go, maybe GI275s or a G3X (the price difference between these options doesn’t seem huge). After a chat with the avionics guy, the upgrade that I’m leaning toward is: G3X, GTN750, and GFC500. My existing transponder is a GTX345. I’m just at the stage of getting a quote (which I’m sure will be eye watering). 

With all that in mind, anything I’m forgetting, should be thinking about? Should do differently?

[201Mooniac]

Just be aware you also need a G5 with the G3X as a backup ADI.  It will also drive the GFC-500 if the G3X fails.  Overall that should make a great panel.  Do you have a plan for a second nav/com?

[sleeper-319]

Is a G5 better/worse than a GI275 for the backup? 

Was thinking I’d keep the KX165 as 2nd NAV/COM, and keep the king audio panel too. Is that reasonable? 

[201Mooniac]

I haven't checked if the GI-275 works with the G3X but if it does it would be a good option as well.  Just remember that you'll need to keep an analog CDI for the KX-165.

[LANCECASPER]

I think the G3X has an option for a remote com you could use for COM 2.

[jamesm]

I would be curious to know if you did install a GFC500 AP with GI275 and G3X where flight data is being written. in my case I have 2 G5's with GFC500 AP flight log files (once micro SD card installed and enabled) the flight log data was extremely valuable for trouble shooting and gives a lot data that may not be available to you. If the G3X isn't capable writing flight data log files. I don't believe that the GI275 has a SD card slot. 

Just my opinion.

Good luck with your panel upgrade.

 

James'67C

[LANCECASPER]

36 minutes ago, jamesm said:

I would be curious to know if you did install a GFC500 AP with GI275 and G3X where flight data is being written. in my case I have 2 G5's with GFC500 AP flight log files (once micro SD card installed and enabled) the flight log data was extremely valuable for trouble shooting and gives a lot data that may not be available to you. If the G3X isn't capable writing flight data log files. I don't believe that the GI275 has a SD card slot. 

Just my opinion.

Good luck with your panel upgrade.

 

James'67C

I believe in the above case the G3X is the brains of the autopilot with the G5 or GI-275 as backup.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I'd seriously consider a pair of GI 275s, they are very capable instruments that have the capability of displaying nav data from both new sources like a WAAS GPS or the old like a kx 165.  They also have a greater ability to drive both legacy and modern auto pilots.  Essentially a great bridge between new and old.  

Add a WAAS GPS and I think you have everything you need provided the new AI gets the autopilot working again.   I personally chose a Garmin 355 gps/com but you could go with 175, 355, 650, 750 and get what you need depending on your preference.   The 650 and 750 have some advantages when driving an autopilot but are obviously more expensive.  

[Baker Avionics]

On 10/26/2021 at 4:49 PM, sleeper-319 said:

Bought my ‘87 J and got it flying this past June. Great plane, dated panel. I’ve got about 60 hours on it now, and my plan was to fly it for a year and use that time to figure out what I want in a panel upgrade, but a few things starting to fail have me thinking about upgrading sooner.

The attached pic is current, and of the pictured equipment, the GEM and the AI are starting to fail. The KAP 100 AP is malfunctioning as of today, but that may be related to the AI starting to fail (couldn’t find definitive info in the book). I had an STEC System 60 pitch stabilizer that’s also failed, but the control head is not currently installed. That’s the hole below the throttle).

So the plan… I definitely want a IFR capable navigator, and I like the GTN750s I’ve flown with. And with the AI starting to go, maybe GI275s or a G3X (the price difference between these options doesn’t seem huge). After a chat with the avionics guy, the upgrade that I’m leaning toward is: G3X, GTN750, and GFC500. My existing transponder is a GTX345. I’m just at the stage of getting a quote (which I’m sure will be eye watering). 

With all that in mind, anything I’m forgetting, should be thinking about? Should do differently?

Shoot me an email and I will send you some examples of what we have done for customers with the same setup on a J model.  We currently are doing a J model with a Dynon right now also.  

[Parttime_Pilot_Blake]

@Baker Avionics 

I'd like to see what you did with the non-Garmin (Dynon) J model when you have a second. I'm at about the same point as @sleeper-319. I don't want to spend a fortune, and while Garmin equipment has a lot of great features I feel they run a cartel that drives out competition so I'm drawn to smaller shops. So its a pair of GI275's and a waas GNC375? (Small navcom) or??? Thanks sir!

~Blake

Edited October 29, 2021 by Parttime_Pilot_Blake

[mhrivnak]

Earlier this year I put in a G3X touch and GFC 500 in my 1990 J. You'll love that combination. Three thoughts:

It's a good time to replace that audio panel and intercom. I went with a GMA 345. They'll do a lot of audio work regardless to integrate new inputs, which you could instead apply toward installing new. My shop created all new wiring harnesses on the bench for my entire panel and ran new wires to all headset jacks. It's nice to have a fresh start with all-new panel wiring. Also, the audio quality from the new panel is MUCH nicer. It's a significant upgrade to quality-of-life. I found that for the same reasons it's worth spending on a nice headset, a modern audio panel can be similarly beneficial. And if you do this, consider adding LEMO plugs up front. It's not too expensive, and nice to not worry about headset batteries anymore.

The used market for the KX 165 is strong. If you plan to keep the plane long-term, might be a good opportunity to replace it with a new GNC 255 and offset much of the cost. Then you'll have a better navcom that will last a long time, rather than need to do more panel work in a few years.

Ans if yo plan to keep the plane long-term, consider replacing all of those old engine instruments with the Garmin EIS. I installed a separate JPI EDM 900, which I like better, but the Garmin integrated solution is cheaper and still very good. Bonus: some of those original needle-based instruments are getting hard to find, so you can sell them to recoup some of your money.

[bmcconnaha]

@Baker Avionics is going to do my J.  Lots of levels of equipment out there, from your basic G5 install all the way to a 500TXI.  

I settled on: 

G3X with engine monitor 

GTN 750 (only part of the change i am not thrilled about, currently have an IFD550, and like it much more than a 750, but I see value in one interface and system to learn.  Especially IFR)

GTX345 remote mounted 

225 com unit

GFC500 with yaw damp option 

Gdl52 remote to get XM radio and weather. 

Remote audio panel 

Excited to get it done.  

If dynon had been quicker to get the autopilot done, I'd have gone that route.  

Edited October 31, 2021 by bmcconnaha

[carusoam]

Way cool! A Greg Baker sighting…! 

@mhrivnak which shop did you choose for all that panel work?

 

Avionics shop still seem to be extra busy lately…

I wrote a message to our Dynon guy… see if he comes back…

Best rgeards,

-a-

[mhrivnak]

I used Triangle Avionics in Louisburg, NC, based at LHZ. Highly recommended. It's a small operation, but they do quality work, stick to their schedule, and the owner is very involved and amazing at communication. My flying club has since sent multiple planes to them for major panel work, and it's been a great experience.

[Baker Avionics]

On 10/31/2021 at 8:03 PM, carusoam said:

Way cool! A Greg Baker sighting…! 

@mhrivnak which shop did you choose for all that panel work?

 

Avionics shop still seem to be extra busy lately…

I wrote a message to our Dynon guy… see if he comes back…

Best rgeards,

-a-

Thank you for the recognition Anthony!!!! LOL  Been really busy and had the COVID for a bit.  All good now and ready to rock. 

 

[Baker Avionics]

On 10/29/2021 at 10:03 AM, Parttime_Pilot_Blake said:

@Baker Avionics 

I'd like to see what you did with the non-Garmin (Dynon) J model when you have a second. I'm at about the same point as @sleeper-319. I don't want to spend a fortune, and while Garmin equipment has a lot of great features I feel they run a cartel that drives out competition so I'm drawn to smaller shops. So its a pair of GI275's and a waas GNC375? (Small navcom) or??? Thanks sir!

~Blake

Will do.  We are in process of it still as there is a lot to cleanup and redo while we are back there.  There was a lot of bad juju going on and we need to have that fixed before we let it out of here.  We refuse to let things go as a safety rule.  We usually eat a lot, but feel better once it leaves.  Drop me a line and lets talk.  Shoot an email first so we can discuss when you call. 541-507-1007

[sleeper-319]

On 10/28/2021 at 12:29 PM, Baker Avionics said:

Shoot me an email and I will send you some examples of what we have done for customers with the same setup on a J model.  We currently are doing a J model with a Dynon right now also.  

Will do. 

6 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

@sleeper-319 you may find that jist replacing the AI with an overhauled one fixes the AP.

I’ve been away from the thread for a while. :-) But yeah, it did occur to me afterward that the AP might be caused by the AI not working right, and they do seem to be related. The AI eventually does erect, and if I “pre-flight” test the AP at the end of a flight, the AP seems to function properly, but I still don’t get the self-test tones like I used to.  

[KLRDMD]

On 10/26/2021 at 4:49 PM, sleeper-319 said:

I definitely want a IFR capable navigator, and I like the GTN750s I’ve flown with. And with the AI starting to go, maybe GI275s or a G3X (the price difference between these options doesn’t seem huge). After a chat with the avionics guy, the upgrade that I’m leaning toward is: G3X, GTN750, and GFC500. My existing transponder is a GTX345. I’m just at the stage of getting a quote (which I’m sure will be eye watering). With all that in mind, anything I’m forgetting, should be thinking about? Should do differently?

I'll be the non-Garmin guy. Garmin just isn't my thing and there are plenty of other great options, and probably cheaper too. My airplane is in the avioncs shop now with the following:

Keeping:

JPI 790

KX-155

KI-206

Garmin 327

GDL-82

WX-900 Stormscope

Adding:

Evolution 2000 MAX - Pro MAX PFD, MFD1000 Multi-Function Display

External Battery

Evolution Synthetic Vision for PFD & MFD

Dual Flush Mount Kit

EA100 Adapter for Autopilots

Avidyne SkyTrax 200 ADS-B In

PSE450B

IFD540

 

[Philip France 13]

On 10/31/2021 at 5:16 PM, mhrivnak said:

Earlier this year I put in a G3X touch and GFC 500 in my 1990 J. You'll love that combination. Three thoughts:

It's a good time to replace that audio panel and intercom. I went with a GMA 345. They'll do a lot of audio work regardless to integrate new inputs, which you could instead apply toward installing new. My shop created all new wiring harnesses on the bench for my entire panel and ran new wires to all headset jacks. It's nice to have a fresh start with all-new panel wiring. Also, the audio quality from the new panel is MUCH nicer. It's a significant upgrade to quality-of-life. I found that for the same reasons it's worth spending on a nice headset, a modern audio panel can be similarly beneficial. And if you do this, consider adding LEMO plugs up front. It's not too expensive, and nice to not worry about headset batteries anymore.

The used market for the KX 165 is strong. If you plan to keep the plane long-term, might be a good opportunity to replace it with a new GNC 255 and offset much of the cost. Then you'll have a better navcom that will last a long time, rather than need to do more panel work in a few years.

Ans if yo plan to keep the plane long-term, consider replacing all of those old engine instruments with the Garmin EIS. I installed a separate JPI EDM 900, which I like better, but the Garmin integrated solution is cheaper and still very good. Bonus: some of those original needle-based instruments are getting hard to find, so you can sell them to recoup some of your money.

Hello,

I am upgrading my M20J MSE 1993 with G3X and G5, looking for central aluminium panel. Could you let me know where you got it?

Thanks

Philip

[mhrivnak]

10 hours ago, Philip France 13 said:

Hello,

I am upgrading my M20J MSE 1993 with G3X and G5, looking for central aluminium panel. Could you let me know where you got it?

Thanks

Philip

The shop that did my installation created the panel themselves, with help from a local contractor who I think did the cutting and painting. My impression is that a lot of shops have this capability.

[Philip France 13]

Thank you for the feedback

Philip

[Baker Avionics]

14 hours ago, mhrivnak said:

The shop that did my installation created the panel themselves, with help from a local contractor who I think did the cutting and painting. My impression is that a lot of shops have this capability.

We do a similar thing.  We design the panels, have them waterjet cut, powder coat and silkscreen accordingly.