Mcstealth Posted October 9, 2021 Report Posted October 9, 2021 Which planes other than Rotax engined ones can use ethanol free fuel? I ask because where my inlaws live, the closest airport with fuel is a 40 minute drive, but there are two County airports very close by but neither have fuel. Quote
EricJ Posted October 9, 2021 Report Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Mcstealth said: Which planes other than Rotax engined ones can use ethanol free fuel? I ask because where my inlaws live, the closest airport with fuel is a 40 minute drive, but there are two County airports very close by but neither have fuel. There are STCs available for quite a few certificated general aviation reciprocating engines. The scarceness of ethanol-free gasoline impedes their broad use. https://www.autofuelstc.com/approved_engines_airfames.phtml Edited October 9, 2021 by EricJ 2 Quote
RoundTwo Posted October 9, 2021 Report Posted October 9, 2021 A good rule is that low performance planes have a better chance of having an Auto Fuel STC. I used to run it in my Cherokee 140, but back then, there was no ethanol in mo gas, so lots more places to get fuel. R2 2 Quote
Mcstealth Posted October 9, 2021 Author Report Posted October 9, 2021 5 hours ago, EricJ said: There are STCs available for quite a few certificated general aviation reciprocating engines. The scarceness of ethanol-free gasoline impedes their broad use. https://www.autofuelstc.com/approved_engines_airfames.phtml Perfect Eric. Thank you. Quote
A64Pilot Posted October 10, 2021 Report Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) As a general statement, if you have a carburetor, you likely can, some aircraft like my little Cessna it’s a paperwork drill, no parts, some aircraft require modification. Again as a general statement if you have fuel injection it’s likely you cannot. However take heed to what Eric said, Ethanol fuel is not allowed, often you can find ETH free fuel at Marina’s as it causes problems in boats too, but you have to find ETH free fuel to be legal. There are apps for this of course, but I’ve not had good luck with the Apps. You can buy test kits for ETH, but it’s easy to test for it, all you need is a graduated cylinder, even a canning jar will work. fill the cylinder / jar about 1/4 full with water to a mark, add fuel and agitate it several times and let it settle out, if the level of the water rises, the fuel has ETH in it as the alcohol mixes with the water and the two together make the level rise. The level will not rise if it’s pure gas. Very often regular gas in some states that are labeled that they may contain up to xx% Ethanol, won’t have any ETH in it as ETH is more expensive than the gasoline, however many States mandate ETH, and in those States it’s going to have it. The 120/140 assn has many times shown that the price difference in Mogas and 100LL will pay for an engine overhaul, which is pretty significant in my opinion. I don’t run it because it stinks, stains, doesn’t store well etc. but many do, and of course there is no plug cowling from lead balls either. Your plugs will run black so don’t worry when you see that. On edit, I’ve looked several times and have been unable to find an accident caused by fuel containing Ethanol, not saying don’t worry about it, but you know many are, Experimental's for instance, Edited October 10, 2021 by A64Pilot 2 Quote
carusoam Posted October 10, 2021 Report Posted October 10, 2021 If there is a challenge with the fuel…. It often is caused by polymer seals, sealants, and parts swelling as they absorb something that isn’t in 100LL… Other places to find specialized fuels… the local race track may have alcohol free stuff…. Fairly priced, even though they sell it 5 gal at a time… to hundreds of racers… on drag night… PP thoughts only, not a fuel guy… Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
philiplane Posted October 10, 2021 Report Posted October 10, 2021 If you run mogas, you should, get a proper gasoline rated transfer tank, filter, & pump, and do it yourself. You will never worry about fuel again. https://atitank.com/products/dot-refueling-tanks/ Here in Florida, ethanol free fuel is widely available. Most WAWA stations have it, Sunoco stations usually have it, etc. I ran mogas for 15 years in a Geronimo Apache, cutting maintenance costs, prolonging the life of the engines, and saving more than $35k in the process. 2 Quote
RoundTwo Posted October 11, 2021 Report Posted October 11, 2021 3 hours ago, philiplane said: If you run mogas, you should, get a proper gasoline rated transfer tank, filter, & pump, and do it yourself. You will never worry about fuel again. https://atitank.com/products/dot-refueling-tanks/ Here in Florida, ethanol free fuel is widely available. Most WAWA stations have it, Sunoco stations usually have it, etc. I ran mogas for 15 years in a Geronimo Apache, cutting maintenance costs, prolonging the life of the engines, and saving more than $35k in the process. So you mean the plastic 55 gallon barrel I carried on it’s side in the back of my 1986 Jeep Cherokee, in a cradle of course, wasn’t the best way to go? To transfer to the airplane, I’d use a 12v air pump, with remote switch, to pressurize the drum and fuel my Cherokee 140. I did that for several years and only pumped gas all over the side of the car once. :-) I was young and “thrifty” and that led to many creative solutions to life’s challenges. 2 Quote
philiplane Posted October 11, 2021 Report Posted October 11, 2021 29 minutes ago, RoundTwo said: So you mean the plastic 55 gallon barrel I carried on it’s side in the back of my 1986 Jeep Cherokee, in a cradle of course, wasn’t the best way to go? To transfer to the airplane, I’d use a 12v air pump, with remote switch, to pressurize the drum and fuel my Cherokee 140. I did that for several years and only pumped gas all over the side of the car once. :-) I was young and “thrifty” and that led to many creative solutions to life’s challenges. While you'll get an A for creativity, that system could get you banned from the airport today. Plastic containers are the most hazardous form of fuel storage. Too much static electricity. The FAA rules governing self service fueling require you to comply with state and local codes. If you have an approved tank, and fire extinguisher, and follow standard fueling procedures, the airport cannot prevent you from fueling your own plane. This is one of the issues mogas users face. Airports try to ban people from bringing fuel in, but they can't if you are compliant in all areas. You might have to add some extra insurance to your auto policy to cover this as well. You can even buy a road-legal fuel 250 gallon trailer if you use a lot of fuel. The Robinson helicopter operators use them, because it's hard to get a deal on fuel when you only take 10-15 gallons per flight. In those cases, they are buying 250 gallons at once from the FBO at a discount, to fuel their helicopters 10 gallons at a time. The FBO wins, they sell fuel without the labor expense. Quote
carusoam Posted October 11, 2021 Report Posted October 11, 2021 New and different ways of handling fuel can lead to new and different ways to have surprises… spraying fuel everywhere must come as a surprise… Especially if it unloads the contents of the container everywhere in small droplets near something hot… or statically charged… Transferring fuel isn’t very serious, until it becomes serious… It is hard to undo a fuel based conflagration… that ruins both your vehicles at the same time… Best to use pumps and fuel transfer mechanisms designed for the purpose… PP thoughts only not a fireman… Best regards, -a- Quote
A64Pilot Posted October 11, 2021 Report Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) I had a 100 gl tank with electric pump, filter etc in my truck, it was L shaped so a PU truck tool box fit it perfectly, should be able to see it in this picture. Got everything at Tractor Supply No one cares, but I found out that they are illegal on the roads unless you have a special license etc, you can only legally carry a 55 gl container, you can carry as many as you like but 55 gl is the limit. Farmers are I believe exempt if it’s for Farm use. Edited October 11, 2021 by A64Pilot Quote
RoundTwo Posted October 11, 2021 Report Posted October 11, 2021 19 hours ago, philiplane said: While you'll get an A for creativity, that system could get you banned from the airport today. Plastic containers are the most hazardous form of fuel storage. Too much static electricity. The FAA rules governing self service fueling require you to comply with state and local codes. If you have an approved tank, and fire extinguisher, and follow standard fueling procedures, the airport cannot prevent you from fueling your own plane. This is one of the issues mogas users face. Airports try to ban people from bringing fuel in, but they can't if you are compliant in all areas. You might have to add some extra insurance to your auto policy to cover this as well. You can even buy a road-legal fuel 250 gallon trailer if you use a lot of fuel. The Robinson helicopter operators use them, because it's hard to get a deal on fuel when you only take 10-15 gallons per flight. In those cases, they are buying 250 gallons at once from the FBO at a discount, to fuel their helicopters 10 gallons at a time. The FBO wins, they sell fuel without the labor expense. Well, this was late 80’s and I tied down a long way from the FBO, so eyeballs were far and few between. IIRC, 100LL was $2.00 and mo gas was about $0.75. That was a ton of coin for a guy in his 20’s and a CB to boot. ;-) 1 Quote
RoundTwo Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 20 hours ago, carusoam said: New and different ways of handling fuel can lead to new and different ways to have surprises… spraying fuel everywhere must come as a surprise… Especially if it unloads the contents of the container everywhere in small droplets near something hot… or statically charged… Transferring fuel isn’t very serious, until it becomes serious… It is hard to undo a fuel based conflagration… that ruins both your vehicles at the same time… Best to use pumps and fuel transfer mechanisms designed for the purpose… PP thoughts only not a fireman… Best regards, -a- As I recall, my unexpected fuel delivery happened while repositioning the car to fill the second tank. My method was to fill one tank, hang the end of the hose from the roof rack, bleed off pressure, move the car and then repeat. On this one evening, I did everything except bleed the pressure…. The sloshing as I moved the car resulted in pumping a good bit of gas out of the hose and down all over the rear side window. Other than that one incident, it always worked really well. 1 Quote
jaylw314 Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 On 10/9/2021 at 9:40 AM, Mcstealth said: Which planes other than Rotax engined ones can use ethanol free fuel? I ask because where my inlaws live, the closest airport with fuel is a 40 minute drive, but there are two County airports very close by but neither have fuel. Um, technically all planes can use ethanol free fuel. Not all of them can use fuel without lead though 1 Quote
Mcstealth Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Posted October 12, 2021 14 hours ago, jaylw314 said: Um, technically all planes can use ethanol free fuel. Not all of them can use fuel without lead though Too funny. I am the one that usually catches things like that. Good job. 1 Quote
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