G275 vertical guidance gripe

[flysamo]

converted to dual G275 units now have about 15 hrs. learning on the GTN 750 with dual G275 units. units work great, one main complaint is on the HSI Vertical Guidance information provided during an approach is small, its basically just a dot, on the right side of the instrument, when compared to our old king HSI its not easy to read and a lot harder to read when your busy doing an approach. Any body else have comments, maybe a soft ware upgrade some day

[jetdriven]

10 hours ago, flysamo said:

converted to dual G275 units now have about 15 hrs. learning on the GTN 750 with dual G275 units. units work great, one main complaint is on the HSI Vertical Guidance information provided during an approach is small, its basically just a dot, on the right side of the instrument, when compared to our old king HSI its not easy to read and a lot harder to read when your busy doing an approach. Any body else have comments, maybe a soft ware upgrade some day

I haven't gotten rid of the old sandel SN3308 yet, but I love the ILS presentation, check this.  A G5 HSI or a 275 just doesn't seem to have the same mouth feel as this thing.

 

 

[aviatoreb]

19 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

I haven't gotten rid of the old sandel SN3308 yet, but I love the ILS presentation, check this.  A G5 HSI or a 275 just doesn't seem to have the same mouth feel as this thing.

 

 

Ummmm....did your CFI tell you to chew on your HSI?

 

[aviatoreb]

10 hours ago, flysamo said:

converted to dual G275 units now have about 15 hrs. learning on the GTN 750 with dual G275 units. units work great, one main complaint is on the HSI Vertical Guidance information provided during an approach is small, its basically just a dot, on the right side of the instrument, when compared to our old king HSI its not easy to read and a lot harder to read when your busy doing an approach. Any body else have comments, maybe a soft ware upgrade some day

My airplane is in the shop getting a pair of G275s right now. 

Bugger your complaint sounds disappointing.

[jetdriven]

The GI275 ADI is a fantastic device, but the HSI and even more so the engine monitor a pretty terrible in execution. You have 90K pixels n this thing, and it's designed by non-pilot engineers who makes stuff you know just not that great, when the glideslope pointer is too small, its on one side. . . And this stuff isn't cheap, two 275's are like 14,000 bucks laid in.

The whole GPSS system to heading selection is like tragic. That's six button pushes. My airplane has a button that has GPS or heading its is one push.   it should be one push.

Edited January 16, 2021 by jetdriven

[aviatoreb]

12 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

The GI275 ADI is a fantastic device, but the HSI and even more so the engine monitor a pretty terrible in execution. You have 90K pixels n this thing, and it's designed by non-pilot engineers who makes stuff you know just not that great, when the glideslope pointer is too small, its on one side. . . And this stuff isn't cheap, two 275's are like 14,000 bucks laid in.

The whole GPSS system to heading selection is like tragic. That's six button pushes. My airplane has a button that has GPS or heading its is one push.   it should be one push.

The good news is all that display is software.  In principle it can be fixed with a software update.

[jetdriven]

3 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

The good news is all that display is software.  In principle it can be fixed with a software update.

In principle, yes. But a lot of things like the GTN750 4 data fields issue, they have basically ignored. Aera660 has two data fields per corner of the screen so a total of eight. But they refuse to do this on the 750 although its  just software right. If you have the remote audio panel and remote transponder, you have no upper data fields on the 750. only the 4 corners, the lower left of which is obliterated by the visual approach button near the destinations. So, on a  $17,000 box you have bearing track and ground speed that's it. If you want distance to destination, or crosstrack, you got to look on your iPad

Edited January 16, 2021 by jetdriven

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

The good news is all that display is software.  In principle it can be fixed with a software update.

Sometimes software updates are just new bug releases.

Somebody convinced me to update the software revision in my G5.   I haven't figured out anything it does better, but it did delete the Ground Speed indicator, which I used to use all the time and now I miss it.   Fail.

[JoshCox19]

If you need a clearer/larger display of the vertical guidance, why not switch to the CDI page and get a full screen width vertical needle?

[aviatoreb]

I would love to see a photo of this not good display on the hsi.

I found a photo of the Cdi but that is a throw back as a proper hsi is a better display for human factors of situational awareness inference.

https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-cdi

[PeteMc]

I think these are the Horz & Vert guidance displays in question. 

 

ADDED:  It was pointed out that I originally posted a pic of the AI to show the Vertical Bars since they're basically the same on both displays.  But so there's no confusion on what the HSI looks like, I've added a pic of that too.

AI on the LEFT       HSI on the RIGHT 

 

GI-275 H&V Guidance.webp

Edited January 16, 2021 by PeteMc

[flyboy0681]

On 1/15/2021 at 10:18 AM, flysamo said:

converted to dual G275 units now have about 15 hrs. learning on the GTN 750 with dual G275 units. units work great, one main complaint is on the HSI Vertical Guidance information provided during an approach is small, its basically just a dot, on the right side of the instrument, when compared to our old king HSI its not easy to read and a lot harder to read when your busy doing an approach. Any body else have comments, maybe a soft ware upgrade some day

While watching some YouTube videos of the -275 on a precision approach I noticed this too. I've grown very accustomed to the big, fluorescent green glide slope tabs on my 525A and can't imagine parting with them when it comes time to ditch the dial. Hopefully by then Garmin would have fixed this "oversight".

[JoshCox19]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

I think these are the Horz & Vert guidance displays in question.

 

That's definitely not an HSI, that's the ADI format.

 

HSI looks like this: https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-hsi

Vertical guidance is definitely a bit small, on the right there

Edited January 16, 2021 by JoshCox19

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

I think these are the Horz & Vert guidance displays in question.

 

 

GI-275 H&V Guidance.webp 31.2 kB · 0 downloads

Is it that green dot in the vertical strip just to the right of the yellow triangle?  Does that green dot move continuously or does it jump to the next white open dot?

Is there any kind of vertical guidance display in the HSI display?  That is what we get in the mechanical King KI525 display.

[aviatoreb]

5 minutes ago, JoshCox19 said:

That's definitely not an HSI, that's the ADI format.

 

HSI looks like this: https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-hsi

Vertical guidance is definitely a bit small, on the right there

Right!  Does that display have a vertical guidance if on a LNAV or ILS approach?  My King KI525 mechanical HSI does (did).

[carusoam]

Tough questions...

For all the pics in the big G ads...

all the dots are centered in the multi-function screens...

On the single function screens the cross hairs are nicely displayed a few degrees one way or the other...

Since being a half dot high, is important to know... expect that these displays will do that...

https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-hsi

 

Chris Koppel has a pair of GI275s in his Mooney and may have some first hand knowledge...   He has made some nice YT videos to go with that...

If I had a really good memory, I would know Chris’ screen name... and invite him here...  

Found him...  invite for Chris sent...   @Fly_M20R

Best regards,

-a-

[Fly_M20R]

18 hours ago, carusoam said:

Tough questions...

For all the pics in the big G ads...

all the dots are centered in the multi-function screens...

On the single function screens the cross hairs are nicely displayed a few degrees one way or the other...

Since being a half dot high, is important to know... expect that these displays will do that...

https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-hsi

 

Chris Koppel has a pair of GI275s in his Mooney and may have some first hand knowledge...   He has made some nice YT videos to go with that...

If I had a really good memory, I would know Chris’ screen name... and invite him here...  

Found him...  invite for Chris sent...   @Fly_M20R

Best regards,

-a-

Thank you for the invite Carusoam!

I have flown my dual GI 275's for 3 months and it actually didn't take too long to get used to the vertical and horizontal guidance indicators they display. To memthey are adequately proportioned for the screen size and do stand out. I have learned to focus on them and do note that I wear trifocals . I do have the middle field focused on the panel....

I will post a video soon where I flew in IMC to 15 ft above minimums in an LPV approach. Hand flew as I passed over the FAF and initial portion down the glidepath and the AP thereafter.

I like the fact that you can display guidance on the ADI and can focus on that instrument primarily during the approach, just using the HSI for distance to the next waypoint and crosscheck. I do wish the HSI would display groundspeed though. 

The guidance indicators are precise and smoothly move across their scales.

Having a vertical bar on the HSI would obstruct the view of the important data fields they put there. As such I am happy with the diamond.

Regards,

Chris

Edited January 17, 2021 by Fly_M20R

[Tom 4536]

On 1/15/2021 at 7:26 PM, jetdriven said:

The GI275 ADI is a fantastic device, but the HSI and even more so the engine monitor a pretty terrible in execution. You have 90K pixels n this thing, and it's designed by non-pilot engineers who makes stuff you know just not that great, when the glideslope pointer is too small, its on one side. . . And this stuff isn't cheap, two 275's are like 14,000 bucks laid in.

The whole GPSS system to heading selection is like tragic. That's six button pushes. My airplane has a button that has GPS or heading its is one push.   it should be one push.

The GPSS issue is a safety concern. In October Garmin said there would be a GPSS fix in about a year. The fix might include a separate/external GPSS button. That is great, but a year is too long to wait. We all need to contact Garmin to put pressure on them to fix this issue quicker.

[RobertGary1]

I don’t know what you all are all on about. I’ve shot dozens of approaches jn actual on the 275. The display seems fine. 

[RobertGary1]

On 1/16/2021 at 9:47 AM, PeteMc said:

I think these are the Horz & Vert guidance displays in question. 

 

ADDED:  It was pointed out that I originally posted a pic of the AI to show the Vertical Bars since they're basically the same on both displays.  But so there's no confusion on what the HSI looks like, I've added a pic of that too.

AI on the LEFT       HSI on the RIGHT 

 

GI-275 H&V Guidance.webp 31.2 kB · 1 download

Correction the second is in mfd mode not hsi mode. On approach I switch to the simpler hsi mode. 
 

[flysamo]

just shot an approach, instead the dot now appears to be a chevron ( ^) turned side ways, actually found it easier to monitor. looks like Garmin is making small changes to the G275 system

[Don Shade]

I have a Sandel 3308 with the WAAS version 2.30 I would like to sell to someone who is not ready to install a G275. 

 

Don 303-517-5186

[StevenL757]

On 1/15/2021 at 10:18 AM, flysamo said:

converted to dual G275 units now have about 15 hrs. learning on the GTN 750 with dual G275 units. units work great, one main complaint is on the HSI Vertical Guidance information provided during an approach is small, its basically just a dot, on the right side of the instrument, when compared to our old king HSI its not easy to read and a lot harder to read when your busy doing an approach. Any body else have comments, maybe a soft ware upgrade some day

 

On 1/21/2021 at 9:27 AM, flysamo said:

just shot an approach, instead the dot now appears to be a chevron ( ^) turned side ways, actually found it easier to monitor. looks like Garmin is making small changes to the G275 system

Tony,

To clarify, Garmin didn't change anything here.  There are (and have been since the GI275's inception) three different types of pointers...from the Garmin GI275 Pilot's Guide below.  The "V turned sideways" is the VNAV profile indicator...as defined by your GTN750's nav profile, which indicates a VNAV profile is currently active.  It should not be confused with being established on an approach glidepath or glideslope.

Although you may have VNAV guidance indicating on a portion of your descent and approach profiles, you should see either a glidepath or glideslope indicator as in one of the first two indications below once GP mode is captured.  In other words, once a GP or GS mode is captured, the "V" and associated "<" change to a "G" and a solid diamond...color based on the type of approach.

Next time you're flying an approach, can you capture a picture of the glidepath (not VNAV profile) symbology?  I'd like to see what you're referring to in case I've missed your point.  I notice you did mention "HSI" above, so the symbology may be different between the ADI and HSI, but wanted to ensure the differences were called out.

Steve

[RobertGary1]

On 1/16/2021 at 9:47 AM, PeteMc said:

I think these are the Horz & Vert guidance displays in question. 

 

ADDED:  It was pointed out that I originally posted a pic of the AI to show the Vertical Bars since they're basically the same on both displays.  But so there's no confusion on what the HSI looks like, I've added a pic of that too.

AI on the LEFT       HSI on the RIGHT 

 

GI-275 H&V Guidance.webp 31.2 kB · 3 downloads

That's not the HSI, that's the map. You need to turn the outer knob one more over to get the HSI view.

-Robert

[Fly_M20R]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:27 AM, flysamo said:

just shot an approach, instead the dot now appears to be a chevron ( ^) turned side ways, actually found it easier to monitor. looks like Garmin is making small changes to the G275 system

The magenta chevron turned sideways indicates you have VNAV rather than  LPV which would instead show a magenta diamond for a glidepath. A green diamond indicates a glideslope on an ILS. They have not really changed anything. See section on Deviation Indicators under Flight Instruments chapter  on page 42 in original manual.