toto Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 Aircraft just came out of annual, Concorde battery failed stress test. So I now have my third Concorde battery in two years. Shop said that they are no longer recommending Concorde batteries due to persistent recent reliability problems. Anyone else have similar experience? From this board and elsewhere, I have understood Concorde to be preferred over Gill, but this is getting old. The Concorde batteries are quite a bit more expensive than Gill, and I've always had good luck with Gill - so this is disappointing. Quote
201Mooniac Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 I have had significantly better results with the Concorde battery. For me a Gill would last 2-2.5 years and I replaced my last Concorde after 8 years of still passing capacity testing. I replaced it only because of age. Quote
MB65E Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 I had a concord run for 7 years. Just replaced it with the new sealed Gill. $100 less expensive. I don’t mind being the guinea pig. However, the group here loves their concords. -Matt 1 1 Quote
Hank Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 I'm on my second Concorde, installed Fall 2017. First one went in in 2008, and was replaced proactively due to slow starting and a planned trip to the boonies. All smiles on my end. 1 Quote
47U Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 Is it only the 28v Concordes the shop is having issue with? (Has the shop checked calibration on their load bank?) I hope they thoroughly inspected your charging system... terminal ends, grounds, etc. Is there a chance you have a parasitic drain on the battery with the master off? 1 Quote
MisfitSELF Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 And I just replaced my 13 year old Concorde with a new Concorde about 3 months ago... 2 Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 I put a sealed Gill in two years. It was still working fine when I took the plane out of service. I just used the Gill because it was free. Quote
RobertGary1 Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 Make sure you’re getting the aXc Concorde. Not much alternative. Gill batteries are a close backup to hand propping and not much more. Quote
Tim Jodice Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 I had a slow cranking problem that ended up being a starter but the battery was checked first. My 3 year old concord 35-AXC passed the capacitive test at 112%. That said I would think a 3 year old sealed gill would pass as well. Quote
jaylw314 Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, MB65E said: I had a concord run for 7 years. Just replaced it with the new sealed Gill. $100 less expensive. I don’t mind being the guinea pig. However, the group here loves their concords. -Matt Hey, did the sealed Gill require an STC? I might try that too next year Quote
RobertGary1 Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, MB65E said: I don’t mind being the guinea pig. However, the group here loves their concords. -Matt Gill were so bad for so long it will take a bit to repair their reputation. Quote
philiplane Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 From a commercial maintenance perspective, I have dealt with hundreds of batteries of both brands over the past 25+ years. Both will have shorter lives if they aren't used much. They're both about equal in longevity and performance. Northern climates are better for longevity. You can get 6-9 years. Warm climates cut that in half. I had a sealed Gill 7035-28 go seven years, and it was replaced as a precaution, not because it couldn't pass a capacity test. In South Florida, RG24-11M or -15m Concorde batteries rarely last more than 3 years, even in planes that fly 400+ hours annually. I have three Gill sealed batteries in Cirrus that are over three years and going strong. Concorde has gotten ridiculously expensive. They've doubled in price in not too many years, although part of that is California overhead costs. 1 Quote
MB65E Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, jaylw314 said: Hey, did the sealed Gill require an STC? I might try that too next year No, it’s PMA’d and they list the M20E in their application guide. Same as the Concorde. -Matt Quote
GeeBee Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, philiplane said: From a commercial maintenance perspective, I have dealt with hundreds of batteries of both brands over the past 25+ years. Both will have shorter lives if they aren't used much. They're both about equal in longevity and performance. Northern climates are better for longevity. You can get 6-9 years. Warm climates cut that in half. I had a sealed Gill 7035-28 go seven years, and it was replaced as a precaution, not because it couldn't pass a capacity test. In South Florida, RG24-11M or -15m Concorde batteries rarely last more than 3 years, even in planes that fly 400+ hours annually. I have three Gill sealed batteries in Cirrus that are over three years and going strong. Concorde has gotten ridiculously expensive. They've doubled in price in not too many years, although part of that is California overhead costs. Concorde batteries are built in Acworth, GA I will reach out to my friend there and see if they can weigh in on the problems here noted. 2 Quote
INA201 Posted December 9, 2020 Report Posted December 9, 2020 There are certain operational issues that can affect the longevity of the sealed batteries. One of the big ones is to leave them fully charged as best possible. Overcharging will also cause issues. Take a look at Mike Busch’s Battery webinar. A lot of folks use battery maintainers. I’ve had great luck with my Concorde in a 1978J. Quote
philiplane Posted December 10, 2020 Report Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, GeeBee said: Concorde batteries are built in Acworth, GA I will reach out to my friend there and see if they can weigh in on the problems here noted. some are, but most are coming from CA, where the headquarters is. They had shortages of batteries due to California's closing of so many businesses, in their overkill response to Covid. Gill is also HQ'd in California and suffered the same problems keeping the production line open. Edited December 10, 2020 by philiplane 2 Quote
MBDiagMan Posted December 10, 2020 Report Posted December 10, 2020 I would have to check the logs to confirm, but I’m pretty sure that I put the Concorde sealed in my Cessna 140 6 years ago and it’s still going strong. The one in the Mooney is only a couple of years old. It is very strong, but that should not prove anything. Quote
carusoam Posted December 10, 2020 Report Posted December 10, 2020 Gill has a modern design for their battery... currently... There is a thread around here somewhere... a few MSers bought one... Unfortunately it takes about a decade to see the results... I used to have to buy a battery every other year... until I got the O... with two batteries, I had to buy a battery every year... That ended with buying a pair of Concordes.... Sounds like Toto may be experiencing a flying climate different than most? Or a charging system issue? Best regards, -a- Quote
Seth Posted December 10, 2020 Report Posted December 10, 2020 Well that’s not good news! I just literally in the last two weeks replaced my 8.5 year old concords with new ones proactively and for other reasons to be discussed soon. Hopefully these two will last as long as the first if not longer. I have a 14V system and 2 RG-35A’s in the Missile. -Seth 2 Quote
toto Posted December 10, 2020 Author Report Posted December 10, 2020 10 hours ago, 47U said: Is it only the 28v Concordes the shop is having issue with? (Has the shop checked calibration on their load bank?) I hope they thoroughly inspected your charging system... terminal ends, grounds, etc. Is there a chance you have a parasitic drain on the battery with the master off? All good questions. The battery was working perfectly for me. I'd never had a moment's trouble with it. But the shop said that it maxed out at 46% of expected capacity on the stress test. I never had a single incident of a slow crank or low battery indication. As far as I knew, it was working as well as the day it was installed. Quote
carusoam Posted December 10, 2020 Report Posted December 10, 2020 Can you oversee a retest? If you have access to a BatteryMinder... it can go through the whole conditioning cycle and recharge it... In the end, you may end up with a spare really good battery... Or discover a broken cell in the Concorde’s armor... The battery specific BatteryMinder has a few tests it does with results given through colored LEDs... Best regards, -a- Quote
toto Posted December 10, 2020 Author Report Posted December 10, 2020 8 hours ago, philiplane said: Both will have shorter lives if they aren't used much. I try never to go more than a week without running it, but weather doesn't always cooperate. The shop told me that Concorde batteries work best if the engine is run every day - but that's certainly not realistic for a weekend warrior. I have a lot of positive experience with Gill batteries, and my experience so far with Concorde has been awful. But I honestly don't believe that the batteries can't function in an aircraft that is flown 3-4 times per month. 1 Quote
toto Posted December 10, 2020 Author Report Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, carusoam said: Sounds like Toto may be experiencing a flying climate different than most? Or a charging system issue? The tough thing for me is that in both replacements, the battery failed shop tests. I never actually experienced anything less than perfect performance in the airplane. 1 Quote
toto Posted December 10, 2020 Author Report Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, carusoam said: Can you oversee a retest? Unfortunately I didn't hear about it until I got the invoice for the annual and they were signing the books. New battery already installed, and I assume (though I don't know) that the old battery is long gone. Quote
carusoam Posted December 10, 2020 Report Posted December 10, 2020 Call the shop... Often, your tail number gets written on the battery... They probably have a monthly pick-up for waste batteries... It might be sitting on a stack of other batteries... just waiting... Do you have a JPI? Concorde has a guide that tells the best settings to charge their battery at... Compare the guide to your actual voltages... you may find a setting can be optimized for charging your battery... Do you have a modern voltage regulator, or an ancient sticks and stones and spring VR? Expect that there is some good room for improvement with your situation... Flying weekly is plenty often to keep a healthy plane... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic.... Best regards, -a- Quote
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