Family - not interested in flying

[Missile=Awesome]

On 8/14/2020 at 10:52 AM, Fred as in Flintstone said:

I'd be content flying by myself. And the motion sickness thing is real. I get that. I'm not interested in having her miserable.

But right now, it's antagonistic about even me just flying. 

I feel for you. Her “problem” has become your problem. No easy answers...Only ultimatum I gave my wife of 36 years was “I am buying an airplane, you can get on board or do what you need to do “. We are still together and enjoying a stay at family cottages that were  1.8 hours by Mooney and 6.5 by car....As previously stated she HATED flying and has long since “gotten on board”  Life is short. Fly fast. Fly Mooney

[MooneyMitch]

@201er.......Smiling through all of your delightful adventures!!  Thank you for sharing all this.

You ARE a true Mooney Ambassador!!

 

[carusoam]

Imagine for a moment....

Living the Mooney Lifestyle!

The Mooney videos around here include Cozumel... And chasing the Solar eclipse.... and a few from days before going over national parks.... most recent pics include Venezuela....
 

Get married forever...

Get a forever-plane...

Discuss the theory of relativity, as a bird flys around in your Mooney’s cabin, While aloft...

Is that parrot’s true airspeed really 165 kts?  I thought peregrine falcons were fast...

Take pics along the way...

Expect that it takes a long time to get all the stars lined up...

Expect that it takes effort to reorganize them each time they go awry...

Stars go awry all the time....

Expect at least one star to go awol, every now and then... how’s your insurance?...how do did the annual go?  ...where do you get that part...?
 

Why get bogged down in the past..?  What’s next...?

See the future....    Be, be the future.... (i mis-borrowed this from a funny movie...Caddy Shack) 

Join the Mooney Lifestyle!

Come aboard, we’re expecting you....   ( the love plane......?)

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[kortopates]

I feel for you. Her “problem” has become your problem. No easy answers...Only ultimatum I gave my wife of 36 years was “I am buying an airplane, you can get on board or do what you need to do “. We are still together and enjoying a stay at family cottages that were  1.8 hours by Mooney and 6.5 by car....As previously stated she HATED flying and has long since “gotten on board”  Life is short. Fly fast. Fly Mooney

I had to say I am very impressed with 36 years of marriage Scott. You must be doing something right!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Missile=Awesome]

46 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I had to say I am very impressed with 36 years of marriage Scott. You must be doing something right!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. She completes me.  I am indeed a lucky man. 

[Oscar Avalle]

On 8/14/2020 at 9:52 AM, Fred as in Flintstone said:

I'd be content flying by myself. And the motion sickness thing is real. I get that. I'm not interested in having her miserable.

But right now, it's antagonistic about even me just flying. 

The antagonistic part of the equation is hard to deal with. My point with her is that this something that makes me feel well and that is a win/win for everybody. We agreed on a certain timeframe when I go flying and if I want to go at another point in time, I need to negotiate it... It works well.

[Missile=Awesome]

29 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Actually she probably looks at it just the opposite....your "problem" (passion) has become her problem.   Let's not forget that Arizona is a Community Property state which presumes that all real and personal property acquired during marriage is community property regardless how it is titled or registered.

Previously you said:

"Doesn't like how much it costs or the time that it takes."

"We do ok money wise, so while she doesn't like how much it costs, we certainly can afford it and we wouldn't have to change our lifestyle financially if I'm flying all the time (for which I am grateful). But what do I do? "

"What about my level of resentment? The one thing I have found as I have gotten older that I really really enjoy, and someone who's supposed to support you and your dreams craps on them?"

Owning a plane is going to cost way more than a new pilot or first time owner thinks even with the best planning.  The first annual generally turns up more issues than even the most thorough pre-buy has found.  And then there will be the day that the engine will need an overhaul costing $10's of thousands.

And unlike lessons and renting, there is limited pause in expenses if for some reason you have to halt flying for a while....work, family issue, or what you may consider a minor or temporary medical condition (kidney stones, heart, any operation, treatable cancer, etc).  Material costs keep coming in whether you fly or not....Insurance, hangar/tie down, annual, ifr pitot/static checks, Jep databases, BFR, etc.

Regardless of whether you build/buy an RV or buy a Mooney, she will own half of it.  And she will be liable for half the costs.  Giving her an "ultimatum" as some have advised may work in some (few?) marriages (good luck with that one) .....But the "resentment", "crapping on" (you and your dreams), perception "supposed to support you" , etc that you mention (hers and/or yours) will only grow with the time devoted and the expense incurred (especially large unexpected costs/repairs) .

Like any partnership your partner has to be on board with the next step or investment.  Actually she has done more than many spouses have done to support you so far.  Taking left seat lessons is commendable.  Many spouses may talk about the idea but few actually actually follow through.  Perhaps, instead of pushing harder, if you back off and let time diminish the one unpleasant memory, you will ease back into a meeting of the minds....sort of like letting the WD40 penetrate the galled nut over night instead of getting a longer breaker bar.  Although your "mid-50's" may drive your feeling of urgency, there is no substitute for time healing a situation.

 

I gave a data point not advise and stating that my personal experience, that worked out fantastic, is/was advise is wrong. Sometimes when something is extremely important to you ya need to go ALL IN. By doing so you communicate where you stand. You let somebody that hopefully loves you and wants you to be happy, clearly know where you stand.  Obviously this is not something I would recommend to anyone because ultimatums can result in the other choosing the highway vs my way.  I hope it works out for you. It did for me and “WE” could not be happier with the decision now made a decade and a half ago. When plane is sold the proceeds are hers. Debt paid. Commitment rewarded...

[Seth]

On 8/12/2020 at 2:09 PM, Hank said:

My wife supports my aviation habit, and enjoys the utility--especially 2½ hours to see her mother vs. 8-9 hours in the car. But she's not a pleasure flyer, we have to be going somewhere.

Hank, my wife is very similar! Still want at some point her to meet you two!

She does not fly just to fly, nor just to get food. She recognizes it's a time machine for travel and without having to go through large airport terminals. My daughter, I'm very lucky, loves flying (when not bumpy) and we've had some nice Daddy daughter time.

You are in tough spot - the suggestions here mentioned so far are some good words of wisdom.

-Seth

[Missile=Awesome]

23 minutes ago, Seth said:

Hank, my wife is very similar! Still want at some point her to meet you two!

She does not fly just to fly, nor just to get food. She recognizes it's a time machine for travel and without having to go through large airport terminals. My daughter, I'm very lucky, loves flying (when not bumpy) and we've had some nice Daddy daughter time.

You are in tough spot - the suggestions here mentioned so far are some good words of wisdom.

-Seth

My wife and I share the same magic carpet time machine to travel with Mooney. Must have mission...and we do. Neither of us just punch holes in sky as a hobby.  

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Missile=Awesome said:

My wife and I share the same magic carpet time machine to travel with Mooney. Must have mission...and we do. Neither of us just punch holes in sky as a hobby.  

I punch holes in the sky and turn dinosaur juice into noise. It was my dream since early childhood, and I love it. Deborah is happy to go with me if we are going somewhere, even just 33nm for breakfast or lunch. Our first post-Mooney Valentine's Day, I sent her to flytolunch.com and told her to pick somewhere within 200 nm. So from furthest West-by-Gawd Virginny, we has supper at a very nice chop house in the Arnold Palmer International Airport. The sun sets very fast when flying due east at 145 knots!

She still swears she had no idea that I wanted to fly, right up until I started lessons. As long as I text her before takeoff and after landing, she's happy. Life is good. If only I could fly more often . . . .

[aviatoreb]

My wife was suspicious when we were in our twenties and i wanted to learn to fly.  When I was teaching at USNA - the Naval Academy - and flying lessons were readily available also for faculty, at KANP, she was scared of the idea and we had little kids and it was clear she didn't want me to.  Not to mention during that period JFK junior did his thing.

Then about 15 years ago she did a bout of therapy and her therapist was encouraging to step out and do those things she always dreamed of and be good to herself and feel good about herself. To stop standing in the way of herself and holding herself back.

Unbeknowngst to me, she started thing about me and feeling bad she was holding me back.  She took it upon herself to find a CFI, contact a CFI and sign me up!  First I learned of that was when that CFI called me on the phone to set up the date for the flying lesson she bought for me!  So I was like - heck yah!  And I jumped right in!  And here I am....

She is FULLY supportive of my flying and that does not mean she must equally enjoy the activity I love.  We love many activities together and we also love many activities separately.  We don't see the need to be identical twins.  It is more of a complimentary and supportive situation.  And as for flying - she does not love flying for the sake of it but has grown to appreciate the convenience of it occasionally if there is something she wants to do (visit her mother say) (or go for an anniversary trip to Prince Edwards Island, etc).  I would say she flies with me 2 or 3 times a year.  But she is highly supportive.  And she does for example, Tai Chi, which bores me to tears - but of course I support it.  We went kayaking together yesterday, We did a ride on our tandem bike together two days ago,  But this thing - it is her supporting me to do my dream activity in a very actively supportive way.

[midlifeflyer]

Counterpoint. I have a friend who always flies with his family. His kids grew up in the airplane. Once they were going on a road trip. Youngest daughter complained, you mean we're not flying?

[MooneyMitch]

51 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

My wife was suspicious when we were in our twenties and i wanted to learn to fly.  When I was teaching at USNA - the Naval Academy - and flying lessons were readily available also for faculty, at KANP, she was scared of the idea and we had little kids and it was clear she didn't want me to.  Not to mention during that period JFK junior did his thing.

Then about 15 years ago she did a bout of therapy and her therapist was encouraging to step out and do those things she always dreamed of and be good to herself and feel good about herself. To stop standing in the way of herself and holding herself back.

Unbeknowngst to me, she started thing about me and feeling bad she was holding me back.  She took it upon herself to find a CFI, contact a CFI and sign me up!  First I learned of that was when that CFI called me on the phone to set up the date for the flying lesson she bought for me!  So I was like - heck yah!  And I jumped right in!  And here I am....

She is FULLY supportive of my flying and that does not mean she must equally enjoy the activity I love.  We love many activities together and we also love many activities separately.  We don't see the need to be identical twins.  It is more of a complimentary and supportive situation.  And as for flying - she does not love flying for the sake of it but has grown to appreciate the convenience of it occasionally if there is something she wants to do (visit her mother say) (or go for an anniversary trip to Prince Edwards Island, etc).  I would say she flies with me 2 or 3 times a year.  But she is highly supportive.  And she does for example, Tai Chi, which bores me to tears - but of course I support it.  We went kayaking together yesterday, We did a ride on our tandem bike together two days ago,  But this thing - it is her supporting me to do my dream activity in a very actively supportive way.

Thrillingly perfectly awesomely!!  

[Amelia]

Oh, yeah. About boating and safety and spousal passions  My husband didn’t share my youthful passion for racing one- design sailboats. He found cruising sailboats a lot of work and boring. And there was the motion-sickness thing. So he decided to build a boat from scratch, a 50x16’ houseboat. (Meanwhile, we had our Mooney) I am not a huge fan of motor boating, but I helped build, learned coastal nav and cookery afloat. Sixteen years later, almost finished, just a little window trim left, that lovely, quirky, hand-crafted work of art, which had given us a decade of fun, was overwhelmed by a freak Albemarle Sound storm and we and our cat were rescued from our poor sinking boat by the Coast Guard’s very finest. We are still grieving, a month later. But even a beautiful 50’ houseboat with 3-foot freeboard isn’t “safe.”  Life isn’t safe. An old friend, age 103, was crossing the street to his downtown law office one morning, when he was hit by a city bus. The driver was looking the other way as he pulled away from the stop. Another a youngish airline captain here, dropped dead from a coronary the day after passing his latest Class I physical. He was strolling across the ramp on a pretty afternoon,  about to take his daughter for a Cub ride. Life isn’t guaranteed. You might as well live it, every day of it. Share what you can, but don’t give up something truly important to assuage somebody else’s neurotic fear. She needs to be glad he didn’t come home with a passion for Harley riding, deep cave diving, extreme mountain-climbing or collecting flashy young blondes, this last being particularly dangerous. 
Sounds like a sensible passion, being pursued with good care, planning, and training. She’d be wise to do accept it as a worthy endeavor, and think about either joining in, at least to some degree, or finding a challenging hobby of her own. Not horses, though. One end bites, I hear, and the other end kicks. 

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, Amelia said:

 flashy young blondes, this last being particularly dangerous. 

Indeed! 

[MooneyMitch]

45 minutes ago, Amelia said:

Oh, yeah. About boating and safety and spousal passions  My husband didn’t share my youthful passion for racing one- design sailboats. He found cruising sailboats a lot of work and boring. And there was the motion-sickness thing. So he decided to build a boat from scratch, a 50x16’ houseboat. (Meanwhile, we had our Mooney) I am not a huge fan of motor boating, but I helped build, learned coastal nav and cookery afloat. Sixteen years later, almost finished, just a little window trim left, that lovely, quirky, hand-crafted work of art, which had given us a decade of fun, was overwhelmed by a freak Albemarle Sound storm and we and our cat were rescued from our poor sinking boat by the Coast Guard’s very finest. We are still grieving, a month later. But even a beautiful 50’ houseboat with 3-foot freeboard isn’t “safe.”  Life isn’t safe. An old friend, age 103, was crossing the street to his downtown law office one morning, when he was hit by a city bus. The driver was looking the other way as he pulled away from the stop. Another a youngish airline captain here, dropped dead from a coronary the day after passing his latest Class I physical. He was strolling across the ramp on a pretty afternoon,  about to take his daughter for a Cub ride. Life isn’t guaranteed. You might as well live it, every day of it. Share what you can, but don’t give up something truly important to assuage somebody else’s neurotic fear. She needs to be glad he didn’t come home with a passion for Harley riding, deep cave diving, extreme mountain-climbing or collecting flashy young blondes, this last being particularly dangerous. 
Sounds like a sensible passion, being pursued with good care, planning, and training. She’d be wise to do accept it as a worthy endeavor, and think about either joining in, at least to some degree, or finding a challenging hobby of her own. Not horses, though. One end bites, I hear, and the other end kicks. 

Well stated. 

[Seymour]

Although she fully enables my aviation addiction, my wife refuses to fly with me since I bought "Moondance".    Recently, she's purchased a PLB, new headset and a backup handheld radio as gifts.   Yes, she flew with me a decade and a half ago when I was half as(s) experienced and twice as confident, but now she has a new, enormous fear that I'm going to take a "dirt nap" and she won't have the knowledge or capability to land it.   

...so she's taken the local flight school intro flight (flew from the right seat of an SR22), flew an Ovation on the local Pilot's Association's simulator, traveled to visit her relatives (with a CFI right seat and her in the back), but we haven't broken through that fear yet.     

Unfortunately, my pitch for a TBM with AutoLand quickly tested the limits of her enabling behavior...

[Fred as in Flintstone]

2 minutes ago, Seymour said:

Unfortunately, my pitch for a TBM with AutoLand quickly tested the limits of her enabling behavior...

It is certainly the solution to her concerns!

[Amelia]

 When we bought our first airplane, a C172, I got my CFI to take the left seat, and teach a Rob to fly it and land it from his customary seat on the right. He had had some long-ago flight training (in a T-28!) as a Navy Flight Surgeon, so it wasn’t completely new to him, but a practical lesson in  right-seat flying, as well as some basic radio work with me, seemed to build confidence. I never persuaded him to actually land a Mooney.. He thinks they’re too slippery. But he has paid enough attention over the years that I’m pretty confident he would walk away from his landing if I were to check out in flight.

[Yooper Rocketman]

   There’s been some incredibly good advice on this thread (look for my “likes”).  My wife falls into the normal range.  Clearly not interested in flying GA.   I did all the “right” things, and had a wife tentative about flying but was willing when the “benefits” out wayed the negatives.  She was prone to airsickness at the slightest amount of turbulence.   I never pushed and, as a loving partner, she also attempted to be realistic.  Trips where significant travel time were reduced she would even suggest we fly once comfortable about my skills, commitment to training, and experience.  Several emergency landings, always on an airport, with no damage, and thankfully without HER on board were contributing factors to her comfort level as well.  

After a turbo failure at FL190, on the way to see my dad on his death bed (well documented here) she didn’t want to fly in my Rocket to view a property at Spruce Creek in Florida.  I respected her concerns, flew down in double the time by airline, and missed buying the property by hours.  Five months later another home became available and she used the same excuse about taking airline.  I told her I was having serious second thoughts about buying a home in Florida (we live in the U.P. of Michigan).   She asked why and I I honestly told her if you’re going to take away my flying aspect I was not sure the whole prospect was something I’m interested in.  She agreed to fly my Mooney down, in late June, and was REALLY HAPPY we could depart that incredibly hot place in the summertime  less than a day later.  
   Fast forward a few years, I finished the Lancair, was only a few hours out of my phase one testing, in February 2017,  and  I gave HER the choice   You want to fly the Mooney Rocket down, in 5.5 hours with a fuel stop and O2 up her nose (best economy, speed and safety altitudes are up high with a fire breathing turbo) or take the Lancair down in 3.5 hours, nonstop, in pressurized comfort?  She said, okay, we can take the Lancair, “BUT WE’RE NOT SELLING THE MOONEY “!!  We arrive at Spruce Creek in 3:25 and go to McDonalds for lunch   As we’re sitting there eating she’s texting nonstop   I ask what in God’s green earth are you texting ??????   She says she’s telling all her friends we’re SELLING THE MOONEY!

   Now she COMPLAINS if she has to fly airline!!!!

Tom

 

[Missile=Awesome]

29 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

   There’s been some incredibly good advice on this thread (look for my “likes”).  My wife falls into the normal range.  Clearly not interested in flying GA.   I did all the “right” things, and had a wife tentative about flying but was willing when the “benefits” out wayed the negatives.  She was prone to airsickness at the slightest amount of turbulence.   I never pushed and, as a loving partner, she also attempted to be realistic.  Trips where significant travel time were reduced she would even suggest we fly once comfortable about my skills, commitment to training, and experience.  Several emergency landings, always on an airport, with no damage, and thankfully without HER on board were contributing factors to her comfort level as well.  

After a turbo failure at FL190, on the way to see my dad on his death bed (well documented here) she didn’t want to fly in my Rocket to view a property at Spruce Creek in Florida.  I respected her concerns, flew down in double the time by airline, and missed buying the property by hours.  Five months later another home became available and she used the same excuse about taking airline.  I told her I was having serious second thoughts about buying a home in Florida (we live in the U.P. of Michigan).   She asked why and I I honestly told her if you’re going to take away my flying aspect I was not sure the whole prospect was something I’m interested in.  She agreed to fly my Mooney down, in late June, and was REALLY HAPPY we could depart that incredibly hot place in the summertime  less than a day later.  
   Fast forward a few years, I finished the Lancair, was only a few hours out of my phase one testing, in February 2017,  and  I gave HER the choice   You want to fly the Mooney Rocket down, in 5.5 hours with a fuel stop and O2 up her nose (best economy, speed and safety altitudes are up high with a fire breathing turbo) or take the Lancair down in 3.5 hours, nonstop, in pressurized comfort?  She said, okay, we can take the Lancair, “BUT WE’RE NOT SELLING THE MOONEY “!!  We arrive at Spruce Creek in 3:25 and go to McDonalds for lunch   As we’re sitting there eating she’s texting nonstop   I ask what in God’s green earth are you texting ??????   She says she’s telling all her friends we’re SELLING THE MOONEY!

   Now she COMPLAINS if she has to fly airline!!!!

Tom

 

Winning ‘em one convert at a time...

Priceless

 

[Yooper Rocketman]

So @Fred as in Flintstone my summary.  You’re not being selfish. She is.  I would not advocate leaving your wife over this situation.  It’s clearly a lot more complex situation.  BUT, speaking from a position of 46 years married to my first wife ..... I’m not sure if I’ll make 50 with her (for other reasons).   At some point THEIR SELFISHNESS, lack of appreciation for what you contribute to the relationship and lack of consideration for YOUR desires overrides bragging rights on how long you’ve been married!!!   
 

You only get one shot at life.  If your partner is totally selfish and inconsiderate of your needs, you totally have the right to assess if the negatives outweigh the positives.  
 

Tom

[Seth]

23 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Counterpoint. I have a friend who always flies with his family. His kids grew up in the airplane. Once they were going on a road trip. Youngest daughter complained, you mean we're not flying?

Every 2-3 years my wife insists we drive instead of fly.

One time we got caught in traffic and the 3 hour trip turned into 6 hours. She said toward the end, "We would have already landed, gotten the rental car, and checked into disney world by now if we flew, right?" I said yes. (we were driving from Maryland to VA Beach in the summer)

3 years later, we were driving and after about 2 hours, she said, "We haven't made it out of the state yet, right?" I said, "Nope." (We were driving Maryland to Philadelphia on a Friday).

Now with two kids, it's much easier time wise to fly but takes a lot more prep and packing to make sure all the logistics are ready for the flight. And then pulling the car seats out of the plane to the rental car, back and forth etc  . . . but it's a nice bathroom break for the kids, a break in the trip instead of stopping at a rest stop. And as they get bigger and weigh more, we have less stuff to bring, so each kids simply is 100lbs of them and stuff until they get to teenage years.

-Seth

[DanM20C]

21 hours ago, Amelia said:

overwhelmed by a freak Albemarle Sound storm and we and our cat were rescued from our poor sinking boat by the Coast Guard’s very finest. We are still grieving, a month later

I talked with your husband at a Mooney Summit a few years ago about building that boat.  Reading this was heartbreaking.  I'm sorry for your loss, I'm glad you guys got out!

 

I'm  lucky my wife still supports my aviation habit being it almost killed me.  But when she was 15 (I was 16) she would ride her bike out to the airport to watch me solo.  She knew what she was getting into.

Cheers,

Dan

[gsxrpilot]

My wife has always been a bit reluctant to fly and treated my airplane habit as my own personal problem. As long as it doesn't ruin us financially, she's happy for me to fly and thus treat the symptoms. Or at least that's what I thought.

And then there was the time we were traveling from Austin to Dallas for her HS reunion. The weather was a little sketchy and we went back and forth between flying and driving. We ended up driving. I didn't want her to think we were flying just because I wanted to fly. 

Three hours on I35 through endless construction zones, in and out of heavy thunderstorms and driving rain... she said, I"ll never do this again. "We have an airplane, I will never make this drive again. If we can't fly, we're not going."  

I realized we'd just turned the corner and she was fully onboard with the Mooney.