TSA

[DaV8or]

To Mitch-

I completely agree with you. I have experienced the same problems as you at Stockton. (KSCK) The TSA is a new unruley child running around airports testing boundries. New security ideas and programs is how they can self perpetuate themselves and justify their paychecks. Unfortunately, the government has done a good job of convincing the general populace that airplanes are a threat and dangerous to everyone. A few screwball pilots have helped this image too. We are now a dangerous thing, like explosives, guns and drugs that must be regulated by the government for the greater good. You and I know this is crap, but that's the way it is. Unfortunately, there is most likely no way to undo the TSA.

When we call our representitives, or airport managers, or TSA officials, or even AOPA, we need to offer solutions rather than just complaining. Here is a solution-

Problem

TSA wants to know that every person on the air field is authorized and supposed to be there. They want a record, or at least a person to vouch for the person in the protected areas. They want to make sure that these people have been vetted. Pilots want free access to their airplanes and the airport 24/7 without requiring assistance from others.

Solution

As pilots, we are required to carry an FAA issued pilot's license when we fly. We have it with us anyways. If this license had a photo ID on it and a magnetic strip, it could be used to satistfy anyone wanting to know who we were, the license would give us authorization to be there and the magnetic strip could be used to open security gates to GA parking at any GA airport. The gate could have a camera that records who uses the gate in addition.

Could the criminally minded abuse this system? Absolutely! Just as they can abuse the TSA badges right now. Just as they can jump a fence right now. Short of turning an airport into a armed fortress, this will always be the case with anything anyone can dream up. I say we push for license-badges and put this TSA nonsense to bed... for now anyways.

[MooneyMitch]

That's a very common sense solution Dave and it has been proposed perviously.  Maybe we can all suggest that again to AOPA, EAA and our state and federal representatives and push for this. 

 

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Becca

A privledge, only to the extent you demonstrate ability and adhearance, like the rest of our motor vehicle laws. Privledge is available to everyone who is able and willing (a right)..........until you screw up. It is a way for governments to remind us of our obligation to each other to follow rules and maintain safety. "Privledge" is nuance for..."yes it is your right unless you endanger other people, then we'll remind you it is not a right...but a............ yes..............wait for it............................. privledge". 

If you want to fight for flying as a "right", there's only one way....... affect legislation.

[flight2000]

And for those of you that think it's not bad, please see the mess developing in Grand Junction, Colorado.  This could easily be any airport out there in the future.  All in the name of security theater....

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...246?source=rss

Brian

[flyboy0681]

Quote: Mitch

  Write your Senator!!!

[flyboy0681]

Quote: Mitch

During my situation today, thoughts of things I’ve read over the years about Nazi Germany freely entered my mind. How the Nazi’s turned average citizens into spies and informants on each other. This is so tragic to me but I think we are there!

 

 

[PTK]

We are blessed to be living in a country which offers us liberties, rights and privileges. Don't confuse things. Flying is indeed a privilege as is driving and paying taxes. Yes it is a privilege to be able to pay taxes! To enjoy this privilege means you are making enough money and thus you pay taxes! The goal is not to complain about paying taxes but to make enough income to be able to pay it. Just as the goal is not to complain about some common sense TSA procedures. Play along and enjoy the privilege of flying and owning an airplane. It is for the benefit of all involved and critical to the protection of these privileges we sometimes take for granted. We all know not everybody can enjoy these privileges! Look around the world and see what's happening.

Stop complaining and wining and realize how good you have it!!

[Skywarrior]

Quote: flyboy0681

Please refrain from using the word NAZI on this board.

[flight2000]

Quote: allsmiles

Stop complaining and wining and realize how good you have it!!

[flight2000]

The BARR program is a great example.  The FAA canceled the program...pilot associations fought back...the FAA relented and reversed its decision and the BARR program is reinstated.  User fees is another example.  And the list goes on and on and on.....

If people didn't fight the government when they got stupid, it's scary to think where we would be today. 

Brian

[flyboy0681]

Quote: Skywarrior

Please refrain from using the word NAZI on this board.

[PilotDerek]

Quote: allsmiles

We are blessed to be living in a country which offers us liberties, rights and privileges. Don't confuse things. Flying is indeed a privilege as is driving and paying taxes. Yes it is a privilege to be able to pay taxes! To enjoy this privilege means you are making enough money and thus you pay taxes! The goal is not to complain about paying taxes but to make enough income to be able to pay it. Just as the goal is not to complain about some common sense TSA procedures. Play along and enjoy the privilege of flying and owning an airplane. It is for the benefit of all involved and critical to the protection of these privileges we sometimes take for granted. We all know not everybody can enjoy these privileges! Look around the world and see what's happening.

Stop complaining and wining and realize how good you have it!!

[PilotDerek]

Quote: flight2000

Brian

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: flyboy0681

Please refrain from using the word NAZI on this board.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: scottfromiowa

 Good Grief.  Mitch uses historical reference in his point and THIS is what you come up with as a response.  Your sensitivity is understood.  The fact that you are made upset by the above comments makes me shake my head.  If the reference to history was inaccurate fine, correct it.  Explain to me why you are offended by the "Word".  I find your request offensive as you are wanting someone to modify their free speech on an open board.  I could go on here, but I won't.  If you wish to PM me, do so.

[sleepingsquirrel]

How about from now on we just call them Brownshirts. That is the pre WWII stage I'm reminded of here and now.

I think in retrospect that Europes problem was ignoring the 800 Lb. gorilla in the room.

[Becca]

Quote: sleepingsquirrel

How about from now on we just call them Brownshirts. That is the pre WWII stage I'm reminded of here and now.

I think in retrospect that Europes problem was ignoring the 800 Lb. gorilla in the room.

[sleepingsquirrel]

I think it does when the title is TSA and a description of their methods being implemented at our GA airports. I concede that I will no longer feel Free to post here. It's been fun, so long ! Becca it's all yours now!

[flyboy0681]

Quote: sleepingsquirrel

I think it does when the title is TSA and a description of their methods being implemented at our GA airports. I conceed that I will no longer feel Free to post here. It's been fun, so long ! Becca it's all yours now!

[jetdriven]

Maybe we all ought to buy a Bonanza. I swear the posters over there on Beech Talk are all about showing off their nice planes, helping each other keep them flying, bragging about something they did themselves, and every thread doesn't degenerate into a political, liberal vs. GOP,  Nazi, old vs. young, Homophobic, Misogynist,  whiskey and woman barroom rant,, drag through the ditch. 

Perils of an unmoderated forum I suppose.

[flight2000]

Quote: jetdriven

Maybe we all ought to buy a Bonanza. I swear the posters over there on Beech Talk are all about showing off their nice planes, helping each other keep them flying, bragging about something they did themselves, and every thread doesn't degenerate into a political, liberal vs. GOP,  Nazi, old vs. young, Homophobic, Misogynist,  whiskey and woman barroom rant,, drag through the ditch. 

Perils of an unmoderated forum I suppose.

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: flyboy0681

 Good Grief.  Mitch uses historical reference in his point and THIS is what you come up with as a response.  Your sensitivity is understood.  The fact that you are made upset by the above comments makes me shake my head.  If the reference to history was inaccurate fine, correct it.  Explain to me why you are offended by the "Word".  I find your request offensive as you are wanting someone to modify their free speech on an open board.  I could go on here, but I won't.  If you wish to PM me, do so.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: scottfromiowa

 I read history.  I understand it.  I find it amazing on multiple levels your response.  You speak from ignorance so DO NOT ATTEMPT TO EDUCATE ME ON THE HISTORY of WWII or the man Erich Alfred Hartmann.  Had I been born at his time in Germany I would have been flying for my country and attempting to due my duty as a German pilot shooting down Russians and Americans.  I was NOT, but I hold no ill will toward Germans fighting for their country.  The political leaders and "Party" members were monsters as accounted in history.  You obviously can't separate the two.  Still like my mother perhaps and have "hatred" for Germans and Japanese 60+ years later.  Propaganda worked well on that generation too.

As for Becca. Mitch's reference is SPOT on.  We NOW live in a politically correct world where individual freedoms are being taken and the collective voice the "one" voice is heard more and more.  Mitch and Squirrel's comments were spot on and WWII history has a profound and correct comparison to the TSA and the direction of the US Government in the 21st century.

 

[Immelman]

xx

[PTK]

Throughout human history there have been plenty of instances where attempts were made by one people to oppress and obliterate another. Way too many unfortunately. The Nazis weren't the only ones who did this. The problem is that we as humans never learn from history and we just repeat the same mistakes. The Greek philosopher Sophocles said that we study history so we may learn from our past in order to be prepared for the future. Unfortunatly this advice has not been followed by humankind. Instead we rehash, complain, and wine about the dark pages of our history. It's history. Accept it, learn from it and get over it! Do not poison your heart by dwelling in it!