New Panel for my 77 J model

[jezzie]

I have attached a copy of the first draft of my panel upgrade. I have always enjoyed the dialoge from all the Mooniacs on this web site. All of you are very savvy flyers and most come with an IFR rating. I have basically have about 10 hours of IFR time with no rating so I am a VFR pilot with a night rating and approx 250 hours TT on a 68 F model. I became a confirmed Mooney flyer and when I acquired my 77 J I realized that this would probably be the closest I would ever get to owning a new airplane, that is why I have completed an extensive rebuild of my Mooney.

I'm now in the last phase of this rebuild being the instrument panel. My original layout included the 530 series GPS and still using the old steam guages, then I progressed through to a G500 with a 530, and now with the recent release of the new GTN 750 decieded to go with that. I still don't know the status of my current C3 auto pilot, and may have to invest further. A similiar dialoge carried on earlier revolving around EI MVP-50 versus the JP 930, and after listening to all the pro's and cons did go ahead with the EI MVP-50.

I have watched a few of the current U/Gs such as Craig (mooniac58) did with his 87 J using Aspen. I know the debate will continue as far as what is better Aspen versus Garmin. For me I will be staying with Garmin. I do appreciate any advice or experiences with this group and if you want to PM me that's OK or direct email.

Thank you

Eldon (jezzie)

[Parker_Woodruff]

This looks good, but are you unable to squeeze the SL30 and the GTX330 underneath the GTN750?

The G500 performed flawlessly, even as flew into dangerous Texas A&M Aggie territory!!

[carusoam]

Eldon,

 

Where did all the clutter GOoooooo?

 

Consider...

Checking the thread for the discussion of T&B vs back up AH.  You have the electric primary, a vacuum AH and an electric T&B.  I think you might be able to further consolidate to one back-up device.

 

If you do prefer to go with using the vac powered AH as your plan-b, consider putting the vac gauge (it can be miniature) as close to it as possible.  It will be an important part of your plan-b instrument scan.

 

Prior to your final decision on Garmin vs.  Aspen.  Check the cockpit integration principals being discussed by Aspen and partners to see if it holds water.

 

Overall, your panel looks great.

 

Did you review photos of the other recently upgraded panels such as Peter, Parker, Docket and others.....?

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

[jezzie]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

This looks good, but are you unable to squeeze the SL30 and the GTX330 underneath the GTN750?

The G500 performed flawlessly, even as flew into dangerous Texas A&M Aggie territory!!

[jezzie]

Quote: carusoam

 

Eldon,

 

Where did all the clutter GOoooooo?

 

Consider...

Checking the thread for the discussion of T&B vs back up AH.  You have the electric primary, a vacuum AH and an electric T&B.  I think you might be able to further consolidate to one back-up device.

 

If you do prefer to go with using the vac powered AH as your plan-b, consider putting the vac gauge (it can be miniature) as close to it as possible.  It will be an important part of your plan-b instrument scan.

 

Prior to your final decision on Garmin vs.  Aspen.  Check the cockpit integration principals being discussed by Aspen and partners to see if it holds water.

 

Overall, your panel looks great.

 

Did you review photos of the other recently upgraded panels such as Peter, Parker, Docket and others.....?

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

 

[kortopates]

I would echo the comment on going with an electric Attitude indicator. I would also strongly recommend swapping the attitude indicator with the altimeter to raise the attitude indicator closer to eye level. It'll improve your backup instrument flying when the time comes. As a personal choice, I would want to raise GTN to as high as it can be mounted in the center stack, and also probably would have opted to keep the Mooney Annunciator unit rather than what i assume is two gear lights (down and unsafe?) and rely on the MVP-50 off to the right for the low fuel. However I am not familar with the MVP-50 annuciator capabilities and just wonder if you still have annunciating capabilities for the starter circuit, low/high vacuum, low/high voltage and low left and right fuel without it. But with the raised GTN, you should be able to fit your SL30 second radio and A/P below it. (Transponder is more personal choice). Couldn't tell what kind of clock but you might also consider one of the Guardian units that also provides a CO monitor. is there a remote ELT switch there somewhere? A vertical card compass on the center tube above the panel?

Above all though, it looks really nice!

[jbreda]

I think you want to stay with a vacuum AH as backup.  The electrics do not respond as quickly in righting themselves should there be an unusual attitude.  You should get a vacuum AH with an off flag so you will know its functionality at a glance.

[AlexR]

Looks good but I would move the audio panel to the right aux radio stack and the suction by the AI.  The idiot lights can also be moved.  You could then get your EDM-930 above or below the GTN 750.  You look at your engine instruments much more than the audio panel and gear lights.  In the soup, on a 'to minimums approach', I don't want to be turning my head so far to set/monitor power.   You want your scan as tight as possible during the critical approach and departure phases which require power changes and monitoring engine instrumentation.   Helps to avoid the assoicated head movement vertigo.  Just my 2 cents.   Jealous, as I wish I could afford to bring my C model up to that level of modernity.  I would be happy trading in my sandel for an Aspen PFD with the new SVT.   Will have to start buttering up the better half!

-A

[fantom]

Quote: AlexR

You look at your engine instruments much more than the audio panel and gear lights. 

[smccray]

If you need to keep the Turn and Bank, you don't necesarilly have to have it visible in the panel.  You could choose to remote mount it behind the panel.

[jezzie]

WOW Thanks for all your help, especially the advise regarding IFR flying. I'll redo the panel and let you know what we come up with.

Eldon

[jetdriven]

Fantastic looking J there Eldon. I'm going to steal the paint scheme for my poor old 1977 J.  I second the comments, just look at how the later Acclaims do it.  Use a split avionics bus, and a standby altimeter and electric attitude.

[Vref]

Wow, very impressive panel! About the AI yes I can confirm that even on my KI256 interpreting the FD bars is strange due to the parralax error...so the more it is in line of view the easier to interpret...

My limited flying experience sofar is that I find it annoying that my GTX330 is on the right hand side requiring a shift of focus. Don't know in the US/Cananda but pumping in 10 transponder codes on a 4 hour flight would be easier if the XPDR was in the center stack.The audio panel you don't touch as much...

[DaV8or]

Things I would consider- I too would switch places with the AI and ALT. I would put the MVP-50 under the 750 and the audio on top of the SL-30. You don't need the vacuum gauge (if that's what it is. The picture is kind of fuzzy) or the Hobbs meter, the MVP-50 can do that. I would really consider adding a GI-106A indicator to the SL-30, because it seems to me that the way you have it now, if you lost the G500, you would have very limited ability to fly a precision IFR approach. The SL-30/GI-106a combo would give you an independent ILS approach. Other upgrade possibilities would be a traffic advisor like the Monroy ADT-300, a 406 ELT like the ACK E-04 and maybe an AOA meter

[sreid]

I don't know what your panel looks like right now, but my advice is to leave it as is, get your instrument rating, then think about modifying it after you've had some time to fly instruments and develop your personal taste in layout.  Some of the suggestions in this thread, I would definitely not want in my panel.  Likewise I'm sure some of the others here would not care for my layout choices.

[jezzie]

Quote: sreid

I don't know what your panel looks like right now, but my advice is to leave it as is, get your instrument rating, then think about modifying it after you've had some time to fly instruments and develop your personal taste in layout.  Some of the suggestions in this thread, I would definitely not want in my panel.  Likewise I'm sure some of the others here would not care for my layout choices.

[mooniac58]

Also remember you will get a remote display with the EDM930 that you place above your glass screens.  This will give you your MP and RPM during normal times and alert you to anything outside the norm if that should happen.

You can see this in the picture attached.

It seems you have your heart set on Garmin - but do consider that with Aspen you could do away with all your backup instruments (only the external AI is required) - this allows you to get that engine computer into your primary left side pilot panel. 

[jezzie]

Quote: mooniac58

Also remember you will get a remote display with the EDM930 that you place above your glass screens.  This will give you your MP and RPM during normal times and alert you to anything outside the norm if that should happen.

You can see this in the picture attached.

It seems you have your heart set on Garmin - but do consider that with Aspen you could do away with all your backup instruments (only the external AI is required) - this allows you to get that engine computer into your primary left side pilot panel. 

[mooniac58]

Quote: jezzie

Craig, I did see your nice Mooney parked in Oshkosh, was hoping to meet you. Your plane and panel is certainly a model for all of us aspire to. I will stay with Garmin mainly cause it's paid for. As I progress through my learning curve, I'm sure there will be many things I will change if I do this again. I did choose the MVP-50 primarily because I got better service, and I did ask for the remote display sadly EI don't have it. I will be attempting to move my MVP-50 to the center stack or to the left of the G500. I will also add a Glideslope indicator if possible, more for my own comfort level than any thing else plus I will have a back up nav if the 500 ever goes black.

 Ah, I saw the EDM930 in your mock up so I assumed that was what you were using.  I agree on the service with JPI - I hear nothing but bad things about them.  Luckily I have not had to work with them so far, so I cannot personally back this up.  My shop installs far more EI MVP-50's for this very reason though.

I got your business card in my tent at OSH and called it a few times at the show - I think I left a voicemail too.  Perhaps next year or at another fly-in!

I was getting close to replacing my GNS430W with a GTN650 but you know - I have played with the one at my shop and while it looks great - it is oddly lagging - like you go to type in a bunch of letters quickly and it gets laggy and backed up - like it has either too weak of a CPU or perhaps the code is not as efficient as it could be (hopefully this is the case since it would be easier to patch the software!).  Then when I saw the Connected Panel stuff at OSH I am now leaning towards the KSN770 beacuse it will be amazing to hit one button in ForeFlight and have my entire flight plan beamed into my panel - drool