Is Mooney M20c a good first plane

[Kb Brar]

Hi fellows , I am new to aviation and so far I have only 15 hours on the book. I looked at a M20c today and liked it. 

Would this be a good first plane. 

My mission : I am a wedding photographer , I would be flying to my jobs cross country with my cameras(200-400 Lbs )and may be one person. 

[201er]

After another 200-400 hours of flying trainer airplanes and an instrument rating, yes.

[Kb Brar]

Just now, 201er said:

After another 200-400 hours of flying trainer airplanes and an instrument rating, yes.

thank you , 

 

[lamont337]

I don’t see why not. They make very good regional travelers. Get a realistic weight including crew, gear and luggage and be sure anything you look at will be able to carry the load.

[DXB]

13 minutes ago, Kb Brar said:

Hi fellows , I am new to aviation and so far I have only 15 hours on the book. I looked at a M20c today and liked it. 

Would this be a good first plane. 

My mission : I am a wedding photographer , I would be flying to my jobs cross country with my cameras(200-400 Lbs )and may be one person. 

No the C model is terrible. Everyone on this website hates them 

It fits your mission fine but 400lbs is a lot of cameras - might be hard to have a passenger and full fuel at that weight.

You will want an IR to use the plane reliably for work.  M20C is a wonderful plane in which to get your IR after you finish PPL.

When I was finishing my PPL, I was encouraged to buy something like my trainer, like an Archer or similar.  Wow that was terrible advice. 

I got mine with 80 hrs under my belt and almost all of my subsequent >600hrs have been in my C model.

Go fly one as you finish your PPL and you will never look back.

Edited July 9, 2019 by DXB

[Kb Brar]

Just now, lamont337 said:

I don’t see why not. They make very good regional travelers. Get a realistic weight including crew, gear and luggage and be sure anything you look at will be able to carry the load.

I am thinking about 800 LBs total with crew and luggage , I believe this plane can carry 1050 Lb 

[KLRDMD]

19 minutes ago, Kb Brar said:

I am thinking about 800 LBs total with crew and luggage , I believe this plane can carry 1050 Lb 

Do you plan on having any fuel or oil ? 

[skydvrboy]

I think you'd be better off buying a Chevy Suburban!  I fly the F model which is near the top in terms of the useful load and my full fuel payload is 642 lbs.  Of course with 64 gallon tanks, I can leave some fuel out and still travel a fair distance.  Even if you find an M20C with a useful load of 1050 (I think most are closer to 1,000 and under), you will only be able to put in 41 gallons of fuel without exceeding gross.  There are other planes that will fit your mission much better, perhaps a Cherokee 6.

On the other hand, if you can cut your gear down to only the essentials, I don't think there is a much better first plane than an M20C.  But the "right" plane is one that fits your mission.

 

[Kb Brar]

Just now, KLRDMD said:

Do you plan on having any fuel or oil ? 

bummer , so they count dry weight only , how much can I carry with full tank of gas?

 

[McMooney]

Yes, E or F even  better.  IMO, the sooner you get your bird the better.

[DXB]

2 minutes ago, Kb Brar said:

bummer , so they count dry weight only , how much can I carry with full tank of gas?

 

6lb/gal x52 gal = 312 lb.

[Kb Brar]

5 minutes ago, skydvrboy said:

I think you'd be better off buying a Chevy Suburban!  I fly the F model which is near the top in terms of the useful load and my full fuel payload is 642 lbs.  Of course with 64 gallon tanks, I can leave some fuel out and still travel a fair distance.  Even if you find an M20C with a useful load of 1050 (I think most are closer to 1,000 and under), you will only be able to put in 41 gallons of fuel without exceeding gross.  There are other planes that will fit your mission much better, perhaps a Cherokee 6.

On the other hand, if you can cut your gear down to only the essentials, I don't think there is a much better first plane than an M20C.  But the "right" plane is one that fits your mission.

 

This is helpful, I took my discovery flight in Cessna 172 and I am Traning with a piper tomahawk , I can manage the weight down to 200 LBs. Any idea on the insurance cost paying about $65000 for the plane ?

[skydvrboy]

17 minutes ago, Kb Brar said:

bummer , so they count dry weight only , how much can I carry with full tank of gas?

Don't take this the wrong way, but how do you calculate weight and balance before EACH flight without knowing this?  I know some are more interested in just going up for a flight than actually learning to fly, and there's nothing wrong with that if that's your desire.  But if your goal is to learn to fly and get your license, you should be a LOT further along with 15 hours under your belt.  If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for a different instructor.

Edited July 9, 2019 by skydvrboy
Read post and sounded too harsh, reworded.

[Kb Brar]

1 minute ago, skydvrboy said:

Don't take this the wrong way, but how do you calculate weight and balance before EACH flight without knowing this?  You might want to find a different instructor, you know, one who actually teaches you something.  I know some are more interested in just going up for a flight than actually learning to fly, and there's nothing wrong with that if that's your desire.  But if your goal is to learn to fly and get your license, you should be a LOT further along with 15 hours under your belt.

I did not go that far , weight and balance  topic is still pending , so far I had radio, for nav , stalls  etc. and 50 landings  done . Sorry for being to dum.

[skydvrboy]

@Kb Brar You'll see I reworded my post.  I don't think this has anything to do with you as the student, but was directed toward the instructor.  You can't be expected to learn what the instructor hasn't even attempted to teach you.  I've heard far too many horror stories of bad instructors out there that are just milking their students for hours.  There is a lot of difference between taking a student for a flight and actually teaching them to fly.

[Kb Brar]

Just now, skydvrboy said:

@Kb Brar You'll see I reworded my post.  I don't think this has anything to do with you as the student, but was directed toward the instructor.  You can't be expected to learn what the instructor hasn't even attempted to teach you.  I've heard far too many horror stories of bad instructors out there that are just milking their students for hours.  There is a lot of difference between taking a student for a flight and actually teaching them to fly.

I did not mean to do that , I have been feeling the same way about my instructor. Mostly I just go up in the air and do stall and s turns and land few times. I don't know any other schools in my area and I wanted to finish my Traning in 40 hours but it seems I am stuck. 

 

[bradp]

Also what’s your plan B for when the plane doesn’t work out?  Would you plan to travel to your gigs a day or two before to ensure that you’d be there without weather pressure or mechanical ills. Seems like a wedding photographer has a fair degree of get there itis potential - it’s not like it’s a business meeting that can be rescheduled.   Someone’s special day is probably not being rescheduled... Do you do more than one in a weekend...,

A rule of thumb is give yourself 8-36 hrs for buffer for weather if you’re instrument rated and it’s it’s not winter and you’re flying personal GA in a non-deiced, underpowered single. 

[skydvrboy]

Fill out your profile details, specifically where you are located.  Someone on here will know of instructors in your area... or perhaps one of our instructors on here is in your area.

I wouldn't limit your search to flying schools.  In fact, many "schools" are downright terrible places to learn to fly.  Most flying clubs have instructors that will teach in the club aircraft.  Join the club and you'll have a whole network of other pilots to bounce questions off of and learn from.  Another great option is to find an independent flight instructor and rent a plane from a local airport.  Or vice versa, find an airport that rents planes and ask for recommendations for an instructor.  The smaller the airport... the better!

[Kb Brar]

3 minutes ago, bradp said:

Also what’s your plan B for when the plane doesn’t work out?  Would you plan to travel to your gigs a day or two before to ensure that you’d be there without weather pressure or mechanical ills. Seems like a wedding photographer has a fair degree of get there itis potential - it’s not like it’s a business meeting that can be rescheduled.   Someone’s special day is probably not being rescheduled... Do you do more than one in a weekend...,

A rule of thumb is give yourself 8-36 hrs for buffer for weather if you’re instrument rated and it’s it’s not winter and you’re flying personal GA in a non-deiced, underpowered single. 

that pressure is always there , I have a team of 8 persons , Advance team can handle small delays.. rest of the crew always travel by road. 

[SantosDumont]

The reality is that because of weather your plane will work out about 30% of the time... unless you are in the Southwest, then it will work about 50%.  There are whole months in the winter where it is just a no-go. 

[bradp]

1 minute ago, Kb Brar said:

that pressure is always there , I have a team of 8 persons , Advance team can handle small delays.. rest of the crew always travel by road. 

Are you personally required to be there? If you rely on a Mooney there are times that you’ll be unable to attend events.  Dispatch rates fleet wide are probably near 85% for just mechanical.  I used to live in Pittsburgh.  From November to April I’d cancel 50% of my planned (weekend) trips for real.  There were a handful of times when we’d fly out and get weathered in for the trip back home - leave plane, rent car and plan another rental to go pick up the plane when the weather cleared. Ignore these rules and there is a very real risk you’ll end up as a smoking hole in the ground.  Don’t mean to be blunt but this is reality unless you get into turbine or high performance twin world.  

[Kb Brar]

Just now, SantosDumont said:

The reality is that because of weather your plane will work out about 30% of the time... unless you are in the Southwest, then it will work about 50%.  There are whole months in the winter where it is just a no-go. 

I live is Fresno CA , I am not planing to fly to every wedding we have 170 weddings to go to a year , my plan is to fly to selected few , only for high end clients. most of my competitor shoot a wedding with $2000 camera and I have 3 cameras worth $45000 each I take out for selective brides. my plane is going to be the same thing 

 

[bradp]

I’d reserve the plane for the lowest end clients and in cases where there is no business competition.  You need to learn about trip planning, ADM, and external pressures very soon in your training and focus on it big time.  Your eyes are too big for your stomach right now... at least from the posted content so far. Have your CFI read this thread and then talk about external pressures  

You get crap weather in Fresno just like everyone else. 

 

[Kb Brar]

2 minutes ago, bradp said:

Are you personally required to be there? If you rely on a Mooney there are times that you’ll be unable to attend events.  Dispatch rates fleet wide are probably near 85% for just mechanical.  I used to live in Pittsburgh.  From November to April I’d cancel 50% of my planned (weekend) trips for real.  There were a handful of times when we’d fly out and get weathered in for the trip back home - leave plane, rent car and plan another rental to go pick up the plane when the weather cleared. Ignore these rules and there is a very real risk you’ll end up as a smoking hole in the ground.  Don’t mean to be blunt but this is reality unless you get into turbine or high performance twin world.  

Air travel is only for selected weddings and it is a show off rather 

[Kb Brar]

1 minute ago, bradp said:

I’d reserve the plane for the lowest end clients.  You need to learn about trip planning and external pressures very soon in your training and focus on it big time.  Your eyes are too big for your stomach right now... at least from the posted content so far. 

I can't afford a $1.5 mil for a nice power house yet, I am hoping for the best with $60-$80k investment