gsengle Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 Prayers for the lost air/seaman... The flightaware track indicates the flight being above 400’. But the track ends long before the flight does... There is a slider for speed and altitude on the graph and the yellow ground track on the map changes with respect to the data. FlightAware is not any better than most eyewitnesses... the last data points climb gently above 1k’ The flight continued on another 30 or so miles from AC to WWD before crashing... A sad day in NJ aviation... Best regards, -a- The video shows well below 500 feet. FlightAware altitudes aren’t super accurate. They are gps altitudes.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jaylw314 Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 1 hour ago, gsengle said: The video shows well below 500 feet. FlightAware altitudes aren’t super accurate. They are gps altitudes. AFAIK, FlightAware also uses Mode C altitudes (it would display altitudes on my flights before I had a 1090ES ADS-B out transponder).
PTK Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) RIP. Prayers for the ones left behind. Very sad and very bad for GA. So unnecessary and so very preventable. I have flown low over the Jersey beach multiple times. Never below 500 feet. What this guy was thinking skimming the water like that I don’t know. Not to mention of course what this does for our insurance premiums. Edited May 30, 2019 by PTK
gsengle Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 AFAIK, FlightAware also uses Mode C altitudes (it would display altitudes on my flights before I had a 1090ES ADS-B out transponder). It’s a mix Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
gsengle Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 AFAIK, FlightAware also uses Mode C altitudes (it would display altitudes on my flights before I had a 1090ES ADS-B out transponder). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
drapo Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 3 hours ago, gsengle said: It’s a mix Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And I would add that it is an altitude based on a standard altimeter (29.92), so you would need to correct for the local altimeter. 2
jaylw314 Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, drapo said: And I would add that it is an altitude based on a standard altimeter (29.92), so you would need to correct for the local altimeter. That's what we were debating--if it was a GPS altitude, it would be a true altitude, but if it was a Mode C altitude, it would require correction Edit: Now that you mention that, though, I have to admit I am unsure if ADS-B Out transmits the GPS altitude or not. Anybody know? Edited May 30, 2019 by jaylw314
gsengle Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 That's what we were debating--if it was a GPS altitude, it would be a true altitude, but if it was a Mode C altitude, it would require correction Though gps altitude itself often isn’t that accurate...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jaylw314 Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 1 minute ago, gsengle said: Though gps altitude itself often isn’t that accurate... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I suspect it is very accurate, since the WAAS altitude is used for vertical guidance on approaches? Isn't it 25 feet/95% of the time?
drapo Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 Here is a quote from FlightAware.com about what altitudes is listed on their site: «Altitude is another confusing piece of data. While at first glance it may seem straight-forward, there are actually several different ways altitude can be reported. Most people instinctively think of altitude as "height above ground level" however this is not what is transmitted in Mode S/ADS-B data. The most common altitude type is "uncorrected pressure altitude" from the aircraft's altimeter. You may see strange things such as negative values or lower values than you would expect because this data is not corrected for local atmospheric pressure. An airplane landing in a mountainous region may be on the ground at an altitude of several thousand feet! ADS-B is standardizing around "altitude above ellipsoid" based on GPS satellite calculations (and again, this is not altitude above ground level). Unfortunately, when viewing Mode S/ADS-B data it is not necessarily obvious what type of altitude you are seeing. You may also see altitudes based on height above mean sea level from older ADS-B equipment. Always take the altitude value with a grain of salt!» 2 1
jaylw314 Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, drapo said: Here is a quote from FlightAware.com about what altitudes is listed on their site: «Altitude is another confusing piece of data. While at first glance it may seem straight-forward, there are actually several different ways altitude can be reported. Most people instinctively think of altitude as "height above ground level" however this is not what is transmitted in Mode S/ADS-B data. The most common altitude type is "uncorrected pressure altitude" from the aircraft's altimeter. You may see strange things such as negative values or lower values than you would expect because this data is not corrected for local atmospheric pressure. An airplane landing in a mountainous region may be on the ground at an altitude of several thousand feet! ADS-B is standardizing around "altitude above ellipsoid" based on GPS satellite calculations (and again, this is not altitude above ground level). Unfortunately, when viewing Mode S/ADS-B data it is not necessarily obvious what type of altitude you are seeing. You may also see altitudes based on height above mean sea level from older ADS-B equipment. Always take the altitude value with a grain of salt!» Ok, I'm apparently wrong in every possible way! 1
gsengle Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 Ok, I'm apparently wrong in every possible way! Yeah an approach is surveyed to know what gps altitudes work...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
carusoam Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 Keep in mind, the FA data thinks the plane landed tens of miles before it actually stopped flying. The video and the eyewitness accounts are after (further south) of where the FA data ends... Best regards, -a- 1
gsengle Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 Keep in mind, the FA data thinks the plane landed tens of miles before it actually stopped flying. The video and the eyewitness accounts are after (further south)of where the FA data ends... Best regards, -a- “Under the Radar”Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shadrach Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 7 hours ago, gsengle said: The video shows well below 500 feet. FlightAware altitudes aren’t super accurate. They are gps altitudes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Looking at the video it looks like you have an extra 0 there...
gsengle Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 Looking at the video it looks like you have an extra 0 there... Sadly so.-GregSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mike_elliott Posted May 30, 2019 Report Posted May 30, 2019 I have emailed Shane asking for surviving widow's contact info, and expressed condolences. Hopefully he will respond with the info so we can reach out to the surviving spouse if there is one. 2 1
201er Posted May 31, 2019 Report Posted May 31, 2019 2 hours ago, mike_elliott said: I have emailed Shane asking for surviving widow's contact info, and expressed condolences. Hopefully he will respond with the info so we can reach out to the surviving spouse if there is one. Thank you Mike Elliott and the Mooney Summit for what you do. It's sad and we all wish you wouldn't have to do it at all. But if it has to be done, we're glad there's people like you! 9
mike_elliott Posted May 31, 2019 Report Posted May 31, 2019 11 hours ago, 201er said: Thank you Mike Elliott and the Mooney Summit for what you do. It's sad and we all wish you wouldn't have to do it at all. But if it has to be done, we're glad there's people like you! Thanks Mike, this is #3 since the last Summit. So sad....
steingar Posted May 31, 2019 Report Posted May 31, 2019 This is aviation. Folks die. It is a pity that in this case it appears to be caused by especially foolish misadventure, if those videos are to be believed.
aviatoreb Posted May 31, 2019 Report Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, steingar said: This is aviation. Folks die. It is a pity that in this case it appears to be caused by especially foolish misadventure, if those videos are to be believed. I like to think it is not that common. I know the actual statistics. But we see a lot of incidents over a year when we are on a national forum like this watching all of the tragedies that rise up across the nation. In some ways, it was more blissful ignorance before the internet. Very sad in any case. 3
Niko182 Posted May 31, 2019 Report Posted May 31, 2019 I tell non pilots that as cool as a plane is, its not a toy. the moment you treat it that way, is the moment it'll bite back and kill you. unless there was a valid reason to be flying at 45ft MSL, this guy treated his plane as a toy. Even in a cub, I don't think I'd fly below 300 to 400ft AGL. anyhow condolences to the family and RIP.
flight2000 Posted June 1, 2019 Report Posted June 1, 2019 Pilot officially identified. https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2019/05/31/officials-identify-pilot-lawrence-klimek-cape-may-plane-crash/ Brian 1
GDGR Posted June 1, 2019 Author Report Posted June 1, 2019 Just searched “Larry Klimek” on FB. Newer account, but aside from one skydiving post, every other pic is M20J related.
PTK Posted June 1, 2019 Report Posted June 1, 2019 2 hours ago, GLJA said: Just hope it doesn't affect the remainder of us all in a negative fashion. It sure does. We’re viewed with skepticism, much like gun owners, thanks to the actions of a few individuals. The best thing here is that this dumbass was alone and didn't also kill an innocent and trusting pax. Otherwise I view this as Darwin at work. Much like gang violence and shootings. 1 1
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