Piloto

[Marauder]

Got some new ones...


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[Marauder]

Even some in hi-def using wide angle lenses to get the FULL effect!


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[Marauder]

But I a do worry that my file sizes may be too LARGE to upload.


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[Andy95W]

Peevee was being completely rhetorical. At no time did he say that Piloto actually made any anti Semitic remarks. 

He was simply turning the situation around and showing how Steingar (who is Jewish) might be offended if he HAD made any derogatory remarks. 

[eman1200]

Is piloto’s wife a pilota?

[Marauder]

Is piloto’s wife a pilota?

Perhaps and his children Pilotoans? (Like how I combined the “o” and the “a”?


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[aviatoreb]

30 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

peevee that is absolutely absurd. Pilato never made any sort of antisemitic comments and please do not use him in a fantasy example. Let me be clear though, if that really was someones opinion, then it is another viewpoint, regardless of the content. Respecting peoples opinions is what makes the United States of America the greatest nation on Earth. I bet that dumping antisemitic opinions here on MS are in violation of the private server's Terms and Conditions of membership.

"Justice means minding one's own business and not meddling with other men's concerns." -Plato's Republic

It is absolutely correct.  Piloto made anti-gay assertions and then doubled down.  The assertion that someone should stop existing because of their very nature is the same if it is for anti-gay, for religion, for skin color, and so forth.   How is an anti-gay - stop existing - rant from Piloto or anyone fundamentally different from. tigers hypothetical anti-jewish story, or anti-brown skin, or whatever?

It is not a disagreement if one person asserts you, or I, or Andrew, should stop existing.  That is exactly what Piloto did.  It is hate speech to assert someone should stop existing because they belong to a category as above.  It is perfectly Piloto's right. to have such opinions.  But the rules of engagement - of this forum - that we sign on to by agreeing to a moderator, and that many of us want, is that certain speech will be moderated.  On the "greatest nation on Earth" - I agree - we have the right to hold such opinions, absolutely, sometimes very controversial ones, and I respect that and uphold that deeply, but that does not mean that I respect the actual opinion.

We do not need to agree on the fundamentals of who should exist on this Earth, and if you are anti-gay, anti-brown people, anti-Jewish people, anti-Muslim people, anti-white people, anti-educated people, or whatever, I do not care to know and that is perfectly your right.  But on this forum, by not sharing or asserting these things, we can continue to engage in an aviation related forum, understanding that on other things we may well not agree but - take Piloto for example - he has a tremendous amount of aviation engineering knowledge to share with us all - and I will be happy if and when he is back.  Under the understanding that - no - on this forum it is not his, (on this forum note that I said), or anyone else right, to assert that someone's very existence should be hidden.  

It is not a both sides argument or a two-way disagreement when someone is verbally attacked for existing. At least that is the rules of engagement of this forum.  As I understand it. Admitting I may well have misinterpreted.

Edited April 11, 2019 by aviatoreb

[aviatoreb]

23 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

peevee that is absolutely absurd. Pilato never made any sort of antisemitic comments and please do not use him in a fantasy example. Let me be clear though, if that really was someones opinion, then it is another viewpoint, regardless of the content. Respecting peoples opinions is what makes the United States of America the greatest nation on Earth. I bet that dumping antisemitic opinions here on MS are in violation of the private server's Terms and Conditions of membership.

"Justice means minding one's own business and not meddling with other men's concerns." -Plato's Republic

poem written by the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller(1892–1984)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Edited April 11, 2019 by aviatoreb

[1964-M20E]

Like in the Sammy Kershaw song

  " Let's talk about anything, anything in this world
But politics, religion and her "

Everyone is entitled to their opinion the trick is knowing when and where to speak you mind loudly and clearly and when to whisper.

 

 

[tigers2007]

Like in the Sammy Kershaw song
  " Let's talk about anything, anything in this world
But politics, religion and her "
Everyone is entitled to their opinion the trick is knowing when and where to speak you mind loudly and clearly and when to whisper.
 
 

Kershaw’s “Queen of My Double Wide Trailer” is more appropriate for the thread creep and one of my favourites.


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[peevee]

39 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Peevee was being completely rhetorical. At no time did he say that Piloto actually made any anti Semitic remarks. 

He was simply turning the situation around and showing how Steingar (who is Jewish) might be offended if he HAD made any derogatory remarks. 

I didn't know Steingar was Jewish, nor is it significant to the point. Nor any of my business.

[peevee]

59 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

peevee that is absolutely absurd. Pilato never made any sort of antisemitic comments and please do not use him in a fantasy example.

you... you don't read so good, do you?

 

to be fair, I haven't exactly hidden my disdain for jose. He comes around here, makes wild and unsubstantiated claims that are often unsafe and we're better off without him. Don't even get me started on his tanks that should have never been STC'd.

Edited April 11, 2019 by peevee

[tigers2007]

3 hours ago, peevee said:

you... you don't read so good, do you?

 

peevee I can read just fine. It is just a BS way to prove your point by making up a totally ridiculous hypothetical situation that “Pilato is anti-Semitic”. I would have had a different attitude if you didn’t pour salt on a wounded member here who can’t even defend their self. Pilato caused his own issues from violating the policies here. No need to make up hypotheticals of the same sorts.

That’s all.

**Edit** I had to add this edit as peevee later added "Go on with your homophobic self then brah." to the next post. I can only hope he is kidding as my personal beliefs of homosexuality are my own business. All I will say on this is that no one on Earth has the right to force anyone to believe their principals nor force anyone to act in a certain manner.

 

[peevee]

1 minute ago, tigers2007 said:

 

peevee I can read just fine. It is just a BS way to prove your point by making up a totally ridiculous hypothetical situation that “Pilato is anti-Semitic”. I would have had a different attitude if you didn’t pour salt on a wounded member here who can’t even defend their self. Pilato caused his own issues from violating the policies here. No need to make up hypotheticals of the same sorts.

That’s all.


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you really don't get it. wow. OK then. Go on with your homophobic self then brah.

Edited April 11, 2019 by peevee

[tigers2007]

you... you don't read so good, do you?
 
to be fair, I haven't exactly hidden my disdain for jose. He comes around here, makes wild and unsubstantiated claims that are often unsafe and we're better off without him. Don't even get me started on his tanks that should have never been STC'd.

Hey I agree with you 100%; it’s great entertainment to read the tales of WD-40 and relief tubes. I really hope that people take José’s advice as hyperbole.


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[Sixstring2k]

18 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

I have been on this forum happily for well over a year, maybe closer to two.  I got involved in conflict on a car forum many years ago and have learned how important it s to stick with the subject of the forum and shy away from stating opinions about other areas of life.  I expect we can disagree to some degree about things like whether a C is easier to fly than an Ovation or some such, but it is wise to stay away from opinions on politics, religion or lifestyle.

i saw a really top notch and popular car forum totally wrecked by political disagreement.  I hope I never see such a thing again.  Let’s enjoy each other and discuss aviation and Mooney’s and realize how fortunate we are to have such a great forum, and try to keep it that way.

I saw second this, well said.

[Skates97]

16 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I agree that it is reasonable to keep politics out of MS, but I always hope things like MS could be a way for people with political differences to come together as people with a common interest, as opposed to most things on the internet that drive them apart.  It would be ideal if the thing that makes us a community would also allow us to bring our disparate beliefs together and figure out how to still be a community.  I'm not sure if avoiding those topics is really the answer either, especially with everything else in the world going on.

I'm not saying that we should be bringing our beliefs with us, but using our love of Mooney's to hold hands and sing "Kum Ba Ya", but...  well, okay, so maybe that is pretty close to what I'm saying.  If that makes me sound like an idealist, color me guilty, but in this day and age where every "conversation" on the internet is intended to drive us apart, we have to find some ways to bring people together because of their differences, not despite their differences...

 

I think we actually should bring our beliefs with us, after all, our beliefs are what make us who we are. The problem is that many of us (myself sometimes included) feel it is our responsibility to prove to others why our beliefs are right and theirs are wrong. As some of you know I am a religious person. Some would say very religious. Over the years I have had the opportunity to participate in many different inter-faith events and gatherings. They have been very pleasant and I have learned much from others as they have presented their various beliefs (some of which are very different than mine). At a recent one there were representatives of I think about 10 major religions that all took about five minutes at the podium to share some basic tenants of their faith and then we all enjoyed a nice meal together and visited. My wife and I were the only Christians at the table. We had the nicest conversations and learned much from the others at the table as we asked them questions and they asked us questions in return over the course of dinner. We left that evening with some new friends. The thing that makes these events pleasant is that nobody is trying to prove to anyone else that they are right and the others are wrong.

Maybe I'm a bit of an idealist right there with you, because I would hope that the love of aviation, and Mooney's in particular, can overcome our differences and hold the community together. 

I am also a bit of a realist (can you be both idealist and realist?) and realize that because some of us (again myself included) have a hard time keeping our opinions to ourselves. In light of that, I agree with your opening statement about keeping the politics and religion out of it. If anyone feels the need for a lively debate, just start up another thread on ROP/LOP, when do you drop your gear, manual over electric gear/flaps, etc... At least then it's an aviation debate.

[Sixstring2k]

Skates I think that in ideal world We could talk and share all our believes when it comes to politics, religion and sexuality but the reality is as you well stated that you run the risk of being taken to far by some individuals and maybe that’s what happen with Piloto ( I don’t know I don’t think I was here or saw what he posted ). I rather be here and be informed and entertained by all of you and share in the love you guys have for aviation than run the risk of ruining what we have, I have seen it turn down right toxic and hateful and don’t wish to see that here.

Don't open Pandora’s box we have more to lose than to gain.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, peevee said:

so if it had been say, a jewish wedding, and he posted a bunch of antisemitic comments it would be "just another viewpoint"?

Thank you, no, please do not try to play Thought Police with lots of "what if"'s. We don't need the drama, you'll just drive away more people. Like me . . . .

[gsxrpilot]

As a non-believer myself, I don't even believe in thought crime, therefore no need for thought police :-) Everyone can be free to think what they want.

But posting on a public forum in a small community like ours is more like speaking out at a private party, over cocktails or around the barbecue. And a guest who gets loud, obnoxious, and hateful, is often asked to leave and not invited back. 

I've said things here on MooneySpace that I've wanted to walk back almost as soon as I've posted it. But I try my best to follow the norms of polite society on this forum. Laws/rule/policies are something completely different and if I even get close to those lines, I've undoubtedly already crossed the line between nice and ass. I try not to be an ass.

I would be happy to have Piloto back at the party, but only after an apology and acknowledgment of his poor behavior. 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Thank you, no, please do not try to play Thought Police with lots of "what if"'s. We don't need the drama, you'll just drive away more people. Like me . . . .

You can think whatever you want.  You can say whatever you want to whomever you want, and they will react as they will.  No one here is asserting thought police.

There is a forum moderator and implicit rule of engagement that says no politics or the like.

If someone asserts that someone else should stop existing is not a two way engagement and forbidding such engagement and monitoring on this thread is a lot more than "thought police" attempting to control thoughts.  Think whatever you want, and it is quite your own business and right to do so.  If someone asserts. that another forum member should stop existing, then that assertion is forbidden - not the thought.  "Thought police" has nothing to do with what is being discussed here. The thought is allowed (clearly) but keep it to yourself (sorry - not you specifically I mean you in the third person) meaning don't post it here.  

Edited April 11, 2019 by aviatoreb

[xcrmckenna]

As a non-believer myself, I don't even believe in thought crime, therefore no need for thought police :-) Everyone can be free to think what they want.
But posting on a public forum in a small community like ours is more like speaking out at a private party, over cocktails or around the barbecue. And a guest who gets loud, obnoxious, and hateful, is often asked to leave and not invited back. 
I've said things here on MooneySpace that I've wanted to walk back almost as soon as I've posted it. But I try my best to follow the norms of polite society on this forum. Laws/rule/policies are something completely different and if I even get close to those lines, I've undoubtedly already crossed the line between nice and ass. I try not to be an ass.
I would be happy to have Piloto back at the party, but only after an apology and acknowledgment of his poor behavior. 

It’s okay as long as you have a “nice ass”



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[m20kmooney]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

If someone asserts that someone else should stop existing...

Who said "someone should stop existing" ?

[aviatoreb]

3 minutes ago, m20kmooney said:

Who said "someone should stop existing" ?

Piloto.

[m20kmooney]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

Piloto.

Can you link his post? I can't seem to find it.