G5 as a backup ADI/attitude - field approvals

[nationwide]

Asking for a friend......

’86 M20K, had a Aspen EFD1000 Pro installed; no additional battery besides the internal.  This replaced vacuum-driven King KI-256 ADI and a KI-55 HSI.  Since these were the only remaining vacuum-driven items on the plane, vacuum system was removed.  Legacy airspeed, altitude, and turn coordinator were all retained.  A G5 was installed as a backup attitude source.

Now learning this may not be a legit installation because the STC for the G5 doesn’t allow its use as a backup attitude source (the G5 apparently isn’t TSO’d in this installation; only TSO’d as the backup to a TXi), and the STC for the Aspen installation requires a TSO’d backup attitude.

My question—Has anyone gotten a field approval for this (or a similar) setup?

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, nationwide said:

Asking for a friend......

’86 M20K, had a Aspen EFD1000 Pro installed; no additional battery besides the internal.  This replaced vacuum-driven King KI-256 ADI and a KI-55 HSI.  Since these were the only remaining vacuum-driven items on the plane, vacuum system was removed.  Legacy airspeed, altitude, and turn coordinator were all retained.  A G5 was installed as a backup attitude source.

Now learning this may not be a legit installation because the STC for the G5 doesn’t allow its use as a backup attitude source (the G5 apparently isn’t TSO’d in this installation; only TSO’d as the backup to a TXi), and the STC for the Aspen installation requires a TSO’d backup attitude.

My question—Has anyone gotten a field approval for this (or a similar) setup?

Was a 337 filed for the install of the Aspen/G5? Is anyone giving you a problem about it? I have this same configuration in mine. The Avionics shop filed a 337 on it and done.

I wouldn't be concerned about it.

[nationwide]

On 4/6/2019 at 10:45 AM, gsxrpilot said:

Was a 337 filed for the install of the Aspen/G5? Is anyone giving you a problem about it? I have this same configuration in mine. The Avionics shop filed a 337 on it and done.

I wouldn't be concerned about it.

The shop did file 337s for the Aspen install and the G5 install. But on both 337s the verbiage was “...installed per STC xxx ...” as appropriate, and neither references the other or otherwise ties the two together.  I don’t know what happens to 337s once they’re filed or what kind of oversight they get. I do know that my installer says he has been “called on the carpet on this one”.  I think the central issue is that they weren’t really installed per the STC.  And without a field inspector seeing the plane, there’d be no way for them to tell.

 

I guess you and your shop aren’t worried. That’s a good data point. I’m curious what your shop’s justification is, though. This is two shops now (the one recently and my installer who has backpedaled) that think it’s not legit.

[Guest]

The installer is supposed to verify the inter relationship of the installed STC's, in this case there is a conflict. It's goofy that a G5 can be primary but not a back up, but as Paul points out it has been done on a 337.  Your friends installer will need to correct the paperwork to make it legal.

Clarence

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, nationwide said:

The shop did file 337s for the Aspen install and the G5 install. But on both 337s the verbiage was “...installed per STC xxx ...” as appropriate, and neither references the other or otherwise ties the two together.  I don’t know what happens to 337s once they’re filed or what kind of oversight they get. I do know that my installer says he has been “called on the carpet on this one”.  I think the central issue is that they weren’t really installed per the STC.  And without a field inspector seeing the plane, there’d be no way for them to tell.

 

I guess you and your shop aren’t worried. That’s a good data point. I’m curious what your shop’s justification is, though. This is two shops now (the one recently and my installer who has backpedaled) that think it’s not legit.

Part of the problem is the whole system is goofy. Every FSDO is different. Some look at the letter of the law and want to enforce that. Others look at the big picture and see that Garmin just doesn't care about putting anything on an STC other than Garmin. But the fact that the G5 can be Primary without any backup, or can backup all the other Garmin glass such as the G3X, TXi, etc, means that the STC discrepancy is likely a marketing thing and not an engineering or safety thing. And those FSDO's just look the other way or sign it off.

As someone once said, any GA plane on the ramp can be violated by a FSDO if he looks close enough.

Just upgrade the Aspen to the MAX and add the MFD MAX and then you can sell your G5 to the next guy. Or at least that's what I've done.

[Gatlin Gun]

OK...don't mean to derail the conversation, but thoughts about a pair of G5s versus an Aspen?  Price seems the same...so thoughts??

[nationwide]

13 minutes ago, Gatlin Gun said:

OK...don't mean to derail the conversation, but thoughts about a pair of G5s versus an Aspen?  Price seems the same...so thoughts??

There’s quite a few threads about that topic already in progress; you’ll have a more productive discussion in one of those.  Try the search function or just peruse a couple pages (Max) of the panel discussion area.

[nationwide]

On 4/7/2019 at 1:32 PM, gsxrpilot said:

Part of the problem is the whole system is goofy. Every FSDO is different. Some look at the letter of the law and want to enforce that. Others look at the big picture and see that Garmin just doesn't care about putting anything on an STC other than Garmin. But the fact that the G5 can be Primary without any backup, or can backup all the other Garmin glass such as the G3X, TXi, etc, means that the STC discrepancy is likely a marketing thing and not an engineering or safety thing. And those FSDO's just look the other way or sign it off.

As someone once said, any GA plane on the ramp can be violated by a FSDO if he looks close enough.

Just upgrade the Aspen to the MAX and add the MFD MAX and then you can sell your G5 to the next guy. Or at least that's what I've done.

Paul, sending you a PM regarding your install.

[larrynimmo]

I kind of got around the issue....I installed the e5 as my primary and installed the g5 to replace the turn coordinator...the e5 has the latest and greatest screen and processor....if I decide to upgrade to the promax....it can be done with software only...

[Gatlin Gun]

21 hours ago, nationwide said:

There’s quite a few threads about that topic already in progress; you’ll have a more productive discussion in one of those.  Try the search function or just peruse a couple pages (Max) of the panel discussion area.

 

Ok...will do.