Round-out seperate from the flare...Yey or Ney?

[Shadrach]

The Yoke, Flaps, Brakes, and Landings thread has brought out a number of differing opinions regarding pattern speeds, approach speeds, what Mooneys are "designed" for, what Mooneys will do, What we should do with our Mooneys...etc..etc.

In reading all this, I came to the conclusion that we as a group are utilizing many different methods.

I see a lot of pilots fly an approach and then briefly level out 50-100 ft above the TDZ and sort of "step down" into the flare. I have heard this referred to as the round-out. I was taught to merely slow descent slightly at ~100 feet if necessary, but typically I reserve most or of my energy for flare. My best landings are typically at speeds that only allow me to only flare in ground effect to bring the sink rate to zero. 

For short fields the the wing is so unloaded in the descent that full aft elevator (in my lap, at the stops) is required to arrest the descent...

So with all of the talk of numbers and flap settings in the other thread; in this one, I'd like to get an idea of what different folks do technique wise in the last 100 or so feet before touchdown..

[Lood]

I didn't follow the previous thread, but rounding out at 100' before the flare don't really make sense to me. If you fly the appropriate final approach speed for the weight you're at and maintain a normal descend rate of around 400'/min, any back pressure on the yoke is surely going to leave you short of airspeed - even more so if you do it out of ground effect. If it doesn't, the approach speed was probably a bit too high to start off with. If the reason for the seperate round-out is to arrest a high sink rate, the approach was probably not steady and you were a bit high on short final.  The result of this might be one of many: You might see a valuable piece of runway slipping away beneath you, you might end up having to push the nose down again to maintain the correct airspeed and failure here migth leave you with one of two options: go around or hold on tight for a rather hard landing.

I agree with flying a stabilized approach at the correct speed and descend rate, right down to a fixed touch down point in the windshield. At the correct height above the runway, I gently flare and the landing is normally smooth. If I carry a little too much speed, the result is a short float. Going into short fields, I keep the speed at the minimum to ensure there will be no float whatsoever. I actually aim to get a rather firm landing without any finesse. Plant it and stop.

I tried rounding out at Upington once. The runway is 15k ft long and the first turn off is probably 6k ft from the threshold, so I decided to round out and sort of fly the airplane a bit further down the runway before landing. I ended up with too little airspeed and an increasing sink rate. As a result, I didn't have any room in terms of air speed, to flare. I tried catching it by adding a little power, but the stall warning was already sounding and I plopped down onto the runway - hard. In retrospect, I should have goe around, but all happened a bit too fast and I was caught off guard. So, no round out for me.

[Hank]

Yes, I round out before I flare.

No, leveling off 100' agl is NOT a round out!

The round-out is a transition between descent and the flare, where you bleed off speed several feet above the runway. Shouldn't last but a second or two, then bring the nose up [flare] for aerodynamic braking, which starts the descent to touch the mains. Rounding out is done only a few feet agl; 100' agl levelling off is due to poor glideslope control, correcting for a poor descent.

[jetdriven]

it should be part of the whole roundout, flare, landing sequence.

[fantom]

All three post above are spot on.

 

[bd32322]

I am still experimenting with my technique - 40 hours on my mooney so far since Jan '11. I come in slightly hot at 80 knots and no power, aim at a point before the runway. At around 75 feet or less maybe (I think its less more like 50 feet), I reduce the sink rate and check the airspeed one last time - anything around 70 is good - otherwise its time to do something.

If all is well - let the plane keep sinking without pulling on the yoke any more until in ground effect, then keep pulling back on the yoke and just wait - it lands like a charm.

 

I think the Mooney is probably one of the easiest planes to land in ground effect despite all the horror stories about airspeed control. My smoothest landings have been in this plane Besides, I almost overshot a 3000 feet runway in a C152 with high enough airspeed - so I dont think its a problem unique to Mooneys.

 

One might say I might have to modify my technique for really short runways - but I dont think there will ever be such a runway just because landing distance is prolly always smaller than required takeoff distance - so I will always land on a runway somewhat larger than the necessary landing distance required.

 

In case of an emergency landing spot or something - i would ditch the roundout and just plop it down into ground effect and flare at the last second - and take whatever I get then.

[ProprAire]

I've found that landing my Mooney is all about airspeed control.  I typically slow the airplane down to 83 mph on short final (full flaps, no speed brakes) and aim for the numbers.  I round-out in ground effect and patiently weight for the mains to touch.  More often than not, it's a greaser about 100-200 feet down the runway (well within the touchdown zone).  My wife is my harshest critic ;-)

I've also discovered the Mooney is quite controllable in crosswind situations applying the same technique although modified to dip the upwind wing and kick out with rudder.  I usually stick with full flaps if the CW component is 12 knots or less.  Anything more than that, I'll go with the take-off flap setting.

Dan