1967 M20F POH missing Primary Instrument List?

[Gary0747]

Not sure if anyone else has noticed this but the original POH for the 67F contains no reference to any required primary meters or instruments.  The 1968F manual starting with serial 680001 was revised and issued in July 1967 does contain this list.   Looks like an oversight but there is a whole series of  1967F serial numbers covered by the original POH.  Does this mean none of my instruments are technically Primary and required?

[FloridaMan]

The 1967 M20F POH is smaller than most sales brochures for new cars. 

http://67m20e.com/Mooney TCDS 2A3 Rev 52 dtd 9DEC10.pdf 

[carusoam]

Is it a owners manual or a POH? (About 30 pages)

either way... find the most updated POH for your plane.  The F should have a POH from around 1977...

The MEL will be one of the pages out of 100 in the POH...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Gary0747]

This first image is the owners manual for M20F that applies to serial 680001 and on.  It contains MEL and primary instruments. 

My 67F is serial 670139 and the first manual does not technically apply. It was delivered with this second image operating manual which looks like the 1968 manual but does not contain MEL or Primarly instrument listings. 

[MikeOH]

I thought the TCDS controlled what was required?

[Gary0747]

The folks who have installed the JPI 900 or EI 30P have had to furnish copies of the parts of their POH that define Primary Instruments plus other data from the POH that defines primary instrument marking limits.  My manual has the marking info but nothing to say a meter is Primary and required for flight. Not sure if what I am seeing is unique to just 67F or if earlier C,D,E models have this same issue.

[carusoam]

See if you have a limitations section...

The instrument markings, like red lines, are in the limitations section.

As far as JPI adhering to red lines exactly... can turn into a light show, under less than steady state operation, like the T/O roll...

Now you have two choices...

• Technicaly following the limitations of future builds of the same model...
• Legally following the limitations documented in the legal document of the exact model/year of your plane...

Back in the day... Bill Wheat would recommend carrying two versions of the document. One, the OM matching the build year, in case you got ramp checked.... the other, the most recent POH, for the best, most complete, technical info for the model of your plane.

Things I have read around MS, not original info...

Best regards,

-a-

[Gary0747]

Good points Carusoam. The only reason I am even asking the question goes back to the JPI900 vs EI CGR 30 P debate.  The EI CGR 30P has a limit on the number of Primary instruments that is one or two instruments short of what the 1968 M20F POH lists as required.  This necessitates the purchase of a second EI instrument.  There is plenty of room on the first instrument for all the instruments on the first EI CGR30P if they are considered non primary.  One of the list members Margrauder) with an M20F has installed a CGR 30P but was not able to get rid of his original six pack gauges yet until he installs another instrument. If he has the same 67 POH as I then he might not have to do this.  
 

[Igor_U]

Gary,

To my understanding and my IA seems to agree, only instruments with limitations in our POH are primary... so that is RPM, MP, FP and so on but EGT or Amp meter are not. EGT was listed as optional equipment for our planes.

As for lightshow carusoam mentioned: when my engine monitor was installed, max RPM achieved was 2660. After adjustments were made to 2700, every now and then I get 2710 on takeoff and warning light flashes... It definitely gets my attention.

[Gary0747]

Igor, that makes sense but aren’t fuel tank levels also considered primary with out limits?

[Igor_U]

True but fuel gages are among FAA required instruments for VFR flights, right?

 

[flight2000]

29 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

True but fuel gages are among FAA required instruments for VFR flights, right?

Correct:

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=f7fdda2c53676d2c233a983c991f21c9&mc=true&node=se14.2.91_1205&rgn=div8

91.205 covers all of the required instruments for VFR (day/night) and IFR.

          (9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank.

Cheers,

Brian

[Gary0747]

Good reference. I assume it applies to all CAR 3 aircraft too even going way back in time?

But I do not see Fuel Pressure on this list?  So can we assume since Fuel Pressure is not listed in my 67 POH that it is not Primary and not required for flight?

Fuel Pressure is listed as required and is a primary in the 1968 M20F POH starting with serial # 680001.