The NEW new panel

[donkaye]

While I really like the G500 TXi, I don't like the way the altitude and vertical speed preselect work on the unit itself.  It is VERY clumsy at best, and at worst can get you behind the airplane trying to set it up while ATC is firing commands at you.  While my plane was down I decided to go ahead with the GCU 485 install.  It JUST fits.  I'll put up a picture of the finished panel when it's completed, but here is the projected new new one.  After speaking with Garmin, it turns out that, just like the Transponder codes are sync'd with the transponder and GTNS 750 and GTN 650, so is the GCU 485 sync'd with the G500 TXi, the GCU 485, and most importantly the soon to be released GFC 500.  That is next on the agenda next year.  I really like the ESI 500 with SVT and Obstacles, and Navigation, but it looks like the G5 is going in its place.  Anyone for an ESI 500?  

[Steve Skinner]

Hi Don

saw my TXi in the plane today. The avionics guys are using a Perspex mock-up of the panel to fit everything up b4 fitting the new panel.

i should have taken a couple of pics but I’ve got left to right - 

the bank of 6 switches, the TXi 1060 then G5

under g5 wx1000 and under that sort of overlapping the TXi the Gcu 485 4 button.

very exiting to see them power up.

Apparently the TXi starts off as a toddler with absolutely no clue to its identity or that of anything connected to it.

my guy says its hours of work training it and putting in the Mooney specific stuff.

He tells me  I’ll be flying next week if the cyclone has gone away.

[Steve Skinner]

Don,

Due to the pilot pac not being available here in Australia I’m looking to have my iPad mini 4 on the right hand panel and my iPad on the yoke.

Can you tell me what your yoke mount is?

its looking like next time you are here in Australia you’ll have a copy of your plane to fly.

[donkaye]

7 hours ago, Steve Skinner said:

Don,

Due to the pilot pac not being available here in Australia I’m looking to have my iPad mini 4 on the right hand panel and my iPad on the yoke.

Can you tell me what your yoke mount is?

its looking like next time you are here in Australia you’ll have a copy of your plane to fly.

I have the aviation dedicated Aera 796 on the yoke; Bright in sunlight (unlike the iPad), Simple, familiar Garmin interface, XM and Jeppesen Plates compatible.

[StevenL757]

Don, would you consider (or have you considered) moving the EI over to the right of your GTN stack (still in legal viewing area from the pilot's nose), and change your PFD orientation to the left?  Unless it's the picture, it appears you're forced to look rather far right at your PFD.  Just curious...

Steve

[HXG]

I believe TXI views can be swapped as desired with several options available. Beautiful Panel!

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, StevenL757 said:

Don, would you consider (or have you considered) moving the EI over to the right of your GTN stack (still in legal viewing area from the pilot's nose), and change your PFD orientation to the left?  Unless it's the picture, it appears you're forced to look rather far right at your PFD.  Just curious...

Steve

Steve, the picture shown was what I tried to get comfortable with before deciding to go with the GCU 485 Controller.  I couldn't get comfortable with it.  It's been switched back to the PFD on the left.  The problem with it on the left is that to control all the PFD functions requires crossing your hand over the yoke and is just completely inconvenient--not as inconvenient as tapping for full screen and controlling all functions from the right and then switching back again.  The GCU 485 takes care of all that with all controls adjusted with the right hand.  All it took was more money.  It cost me the extra expense of another new panel and should have been done the first time.  I'd recommend anyone getting the G500 TXi get the GCU 485 and save yourself the hassle of doing it later when you're not happy with the way the G500TXi functions or waiting until the GFC 500 comes out for Mooney and just use that for all the PFD control.

Regarding the Backup, when the GFC 500 becomes available, the G5 will be required, so I might as well use it and eliminate the ESI 500.  I want the backup next to the big screen, and putting it or the G5 on the right doesn't make sense to me, as I'll never be looking over on the copilots side, and i've got more than enough displays now as it is.

[StevenL757]

Gotcha - makes complete sense.  When I'm in the planning stages of my TXi, I'll certainly consider these factors...and appreciate being able to learn from what you've already been through,  Thanks for the insight...it is valuable.

Steve

[carusoam]

Steve S,

feel free to post pics... including the Perspex mock-ups!

 

StevenL posted similar pics when his panel got updated.

It is truly a learning experience.

 

I hope to be following you guys’ leads... in another decade or so....  

Thanks for sharing the details!

Best regards,

-a-

[JohnB]

Don! This post made me chuckle as I think I recall complaining about the same thing and I think it was you who said they wouldn’t get a GCU unit, now you’re getting one! :)

i know what you mean, the Txi altitude and vs preselect is a little clunky, but I’ve adapted with a few workarounds, one is if you change altitudes during a programmed descent before reaching the set one, it’s a simple twist, knobs only. So I set altitude first on rapid fire atc altitude changes, and try to do a gradual continuous descent rather than a rapid step down which will require you re arming the new altitude each time.

remembering where each stop is also helps on the large knob, so I don’t have to think about it. Hdg no large knob, altitude one large knob click right. 

So... now that you’re re doing your panel, are you going to put your pfd on the right? (I would still recommend you consider, that makes the control of AP functions so much easier.)

 

[donkaye]

53 minutes ago, JohnB said:

Don! This post made me chuckle as I think I recall complaining about the same thing and I think it was you who said they wouldn’t get a GCU unit, now you’re getting one!

i know what you mean, the Txi altitude and vs preselect is a little clunky, but I’ve adapted with a few workarounds, one is if you change altitudes during a programmed descent before reaching the set one, it’s a simple twist, knobs only. So I set altitude first on rapid fire atc altitude changes, and try to do a gradual continuous descent rather than a rapid step down which will require you re arming the new altitude each time.

remembering where each stop is also helps on the large knob, so I don’t have to think about it. Hdg no large knob, altitude one large knob click right. 

So... now that you’re re doing your panel, are you going to put your pfd on the right? (I would still recommend you consider, that makes the control of AP functions so much easier.)

 

John, I'll eat a little crow on that one.  As the picture above shows, I tried the PFD on the right for a little while.  I just couldn't get used to it over there.  Yes, all the functions that are talked about make the GCU 485 unnecessary if that is done and  you feel comfortable with it.  I didn't like it enough that I am willing to spend the 5K (new panel , GCU module, and labor to install) to get the GCU 485 and clutter up my panel a little.

[Steve Skinner]

Some pics so far



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pwnel]

On 12/12/2018 at 12:11 AM, donkaye said:

While I really like the G500 TXi, I don't like the way the altitude and vertical speed preselect work on the unit itself.  It is VERY clumsy at best, and at worst can get you behind the airplane trying to set it up while ATC is firing commands at you.  While my plane was down I decided to go ahead with the GCU 485 install.  It JUST fits.  I'll put up a picture of the finished panel when it's completed, but here is the projected new new one.  After speaking with Garmin, it turns out that, just like the Transponder codes are sync'd with the transponder and GTNS 750 and GTN 650, so is the GCU 485 sync'd with the G500 TXi, the GCU 485, and most importantly the soon to be released GFC 500.  That is next on the agenda next year.  I really like the ESI 500 with SVT and Obstacles, and Navigation, but it looks like the G5 is going in its place.  Anyone for an ESI 500?  

Why would you install the GCU 485 if you plan on the GFC 500?  I thought the latter has all the discrete knobs you need already?

[donkaye]

The reasons: It will be months before the GFC 500 STC is available for the Mooney and I REALLY don't like the way the TXi handles things I do often like altitude and vertical speed preselect and changing from GPSS mode to HDG mode; Options, there will be flexibility in control from either the TXi or GCU 485 or GFC500; I'll be keeping my current panel so I could always sell the GCU 485 at a discount, of course, and just be out the labor, new new panel cost, and discount, amounts I am comfortable with;  I will probably wait a number of months to do the GFC 500 to wait and and see if there  are any problems with it. (my experience with new products from Garmin is that it takes awhile to wring things out).

[pwnel]

Thanks @donkaye explains things.  

Since you apply so much thought to this: in "bigger" aircraft the autopilot controls is always on the top of the panel between the two pilots.  In small GA aircraft the autopilot ends up at the bottom of the stack, well away from any normal scan and in an obscure place if you're having to twist a heading knob (in exactly the case where you don't have a 485).  In planning my panel I'm considering breaking this GA norm and putting the GFC 500 right at the top of the radio stack followed by the GTN 750.   (The planned PMA 450 can shift to the right in front of the P2)

Thoughts?

[donkaye]

25 minutes ago, pwnel said:

Thanks @donkaye explains things.  

Since you apply so much thought to this: in "bigger" aircraft the autopilot controls is always on the top of the panel between the two pilots.  In small GA aircraft the autopilot ends up at the bottom of the stack, well away from any normal scan and in an obscure place if you're having to twist a heading knob (in exactly the case where you don't have a 485).  In planning my panel I'm considering breaking this GA norm and putting the GFC 500 right at the top of the radio stack followed by the GTN 750.   (The planned PMA 450 can shift to the right in front of the P2)

Thoughts?

If you do that, then you will have to be raising your hand higher than you would want to constantly do in my opinion to change heading and other preselects.  In fact, the more I think about it, although maybe I'll change my mind after I use it for awhile, I'll probably just keep the GCU 485, since its placement will make easy work of all the required heading and preselect changes.

[donkaye]

18 hours ago, Steve Skinner said:

Some pics so far



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a nice layout, Steve.   What are the instruments next to the TXi?  If one is the older Stormscope, I'd get rid of it in favor of the WX500 Stormscope which will display on both the GTN 750 and G500 TXi.  What is the upper right instrument?  The ESI 500 backup?  If so, where is your Engine Monitor?  I'd want it in my field of view.  If not the ESI 500,  then where is your backup?

[Cruiser]

My VS button is located front and center on the lower right knob of the PFD. It also selects the Altitude when you push it in once to change from HDG mode to ALT mode. The hollow cyan bug on the vertical speed tape moves up and down and turns to a solid magenta box with the digital rate inside when selected. 

Not bad for this crude, VW bug of a glass panel.

[Steve Skinner]

That's a nice layout, Steve.   What are the instruments next to the TXi?  If one is the older Stormscope, I'd get rid of it in favor of the WX500 Stormscope which will display on both the GTN 750 and G500 TXi.  What is the upper right instrument?  The ESI 500 backup?  If so, where is your Engine Monitor?  I'd want it in my field of view.  If not the ESI 500,  then where is your backup?

So the G5 backup with battery goes in top right.
Wx1000 underneath and Gxu 485 under that
I could not justify the extra $12000 Au for the wx500.
For some reason the install cost was very high.
Funnily enough I got the guys doing the job to run the harness for the wx500 should the old one fail.
Quality Avionics are doing the job at Archerfield. Haven’t yet weighed what’s been pulled out but it substantial.
Kg’s of wiring, all the steam gauges except wx1000, vac pump and vac backup.
The Txi is eis so mfd gives full instrumentation while side strip will show snapshot. So I can have it on pfd till leveled out and trimmed and monitor strip after that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[donkaye]

That's going to be a great setup.  

[Steve Skinner]

If you do that, then you will have to be raising your hand higher than you would want to constantly do in my opinion to change heading and other preselects.  In fact, the more I think about it, although maybe I'll change my mind after I use it for awhile, I'll probably just keep the GCU 485, since its placement will make easy work of all the required heading and preselect changes.

I expressed to my guys that I wanted to be able to rest my elbow on my right knee to operate the gcu485 in case of turbulence.
Like Florida we get a fair bit of convective here in Queensland.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Steve Skinner]

That's going to be a great setup.  

Well it’s not too different to yours in reality. Except my eng instruments are in the Txi


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[JohnB]

The GFC 500 looks very nice, and I would be interested in that upgrade, but just looked at their website small print:

¹Required. G5 sold separately.
²G500 or G500 TXi require G5 as the standby flight instrument and the GAD™ 29B adapter.

It looks like as for now, in order to install a GFC500 autopilot in a TXi system or a G500 system, you are required to put in a G5 as your backup. Now that seems a little like forced buying as your backup system would not be connected to your autopilot. Hmmm.

[Bob - S50]

41 minutes ago, JohnB said:

The GFC 500 looks very nice, and I would be interested in that upgrade, but just looked at their website small print:

¹Required. G5 sold separately.
²G500 or G500 TXi require G5 as the standby flight instrument and the GAD™ 29B adapter.

It looks like as for now, in order to install a GFC500 autopilot in a TXi system or a G500 system, you are required to put in a G5 as your backup. Now that seems a little like forced buying as your backup system would not be connected to your autopilot. Hmmm.

Not sure, but I think you actually have that backwards.  The brains of the GFC500 reside inside the G5 ADI.  If you have the G500 or Txi, your autopilot is not only connected to the G5, it's the G5 that makes it work.

[Bob - S50]

On 12/13/2018 at 7:03 PM, pwnel said:

Thanks @donkaye explains things.  

Since you apply so much thought to this: in "bigger" aircraft the autopilot controls is always on the top of the panel between the two pilots.  In small GA aircraft the autopilot ends up at the bottom of the stack, well away from any normal scan and in an obscure place if you're having to twist a heading knob (in exactly the case where you don't have a 485).  In planning my panel I'm considering breaking this GA norm and putting the GFC 500 right at the top of the radio stack followed by the GTN 750.   (The planned PMA 450 can shift to the right in front of the P2)

Thoughts?

I'm planning something similar but even a bit more radical.  I'm planning on installing the GFC control panel (GMC507?) to the left of the radio rack, to the right of the altimeter and above the #2 CDI.  The EDM730 that currently resides there will turn 90 degrees to the profile orientation and fit below the GMC507 and between the #2 CDI and the radio rack.  That puts all the buttons up front in my primary field of view where I can find them easily.  By doing that I also avoid having to move a bunch of radios around.  The radio stacks can stay just like they are now.  Our installer says that will actually be easier, take less time, and cost less.

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Bob - S50
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