LED landing Lights

[L. Trotter]

I have been looking at the Aero-Lite PAR 36 SunSetter Ultra. These lights are shielded for RFI and have temperature and power regulation. 

I know there is quite the controversy over the use of LED lights in general as a "like" replacement for the STD GE incandescent bulb, as most do not have a formal certification to be used in our planes. My local FSDO will not make any determination and states they will forward the paper work (337) to Oklahoma. I am aware of several guys who are placing these lights as an owner maintenance item.

Questions:

1. Has anyone actually completed a field approval (337) for LED landing lights in a Mooney and been approved?

2. What are the thoughts of an insurance company denying a claim on the grounds that "unapproved" parts were placed into service?

[Hank]

Form 337 is for Major Changes. Look up the definition in the FARs and tell me how you think a landing light fits.

I really like my LED landing light, it's on all the time. In fact, it turns on and off with the Master Switch.

[rbridges]

I didn't know landing lights were an issue. Most of the debates have been over wingtips lights.

[FloridaMan]

Why not just get a PMA light? I've got two of the Teledyne Alphabeams and they're incredible. 

[L. Trotter]

Please don't shoot the messenger.

I personally agree that this is not a "major" change. The issue is being raised by local FSDO and A&P. Apparently, a PMA does not give me the right to place in my plane. I'm told LED lights have issues with radio frequency interference and can "shut your radios down when you turn the lights on doing an approach in IMC". 

I have heard of some issues in the past with older LED lights but never anything current or with landing lights. Certainly not shutting down radios.

I have been told:

1. Don't place at all

2. Place in my plane then hire a Designated Airworthiness Representative (DAR) to eval the "new equipment" for safety.

3. Apply for a 337

I was not threatened by possible grounding of my plane but warned that my insurance company may withhold coverage should an incident occur. 

I, like everyone who has placed LED lights, see this update as being very positive and desirable. Just trying to navigate the bureaucracy. Perhaps I should just place the lights and ask for forgiveness if questioned.

[Hank]

Get LED landing light(s) installed, run them all the time and enjoy increased daytime safety and nighttime visibility. 

The whole "insurance won't pay if a single unapproved part is on your plane" thing has gone round and round and round, ignoring the advice of insurance professionals. Maybe one will comment here again? @Parker_Woodruff maybe? Who else is around?

[gsxrpilot]

Many of us have done it and so obviously we have no reservations. In fact, many of us have replaced the landing lights with lights off the shelf and not specifically the "aviation" shelf. They're just light bulbs.

At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[MIm20c]

With 4 bulbs you could always do 2 led and 2 original. 

[Hank]

3 hours ago, MIm20c said:

With 4 bulbs you could always do 2 led and 2 original. 

Why? The originals are dim, yellow and burn out . . . .

[MIm20c]

57 minutes ago, Hank said:

Why? The originals are dim, yellow and burn out . . . .

I guess I misunderstood, I thought the Acclaim had similar lighting to the other long bodies. 1000 watts and enough lighting to land a 747. Huge power draw, heat, and short bulb life are the issue IMO not the light output. 

[Steve W]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

Get LED landing light(s) installed, run them all the time and enjoy increased daytime safety and nighttime visibility. 

The whole "insurance won't pay if a single unapproved part is on your plane" thing has gone round and round and round, ignoring the advice of insurance professionals. Maybe one will comment here again? @Parker_Woodruff maybe? Who else is around?

My incident was at night, requiring lights, no one even asked me if I had LED lights installed, the insurance guys did come look at the plane but that was to evaluate damage. The FAA didn't look at the plane. Unless the incident was directly caused by the lights, like catching fire, I don't think they'd care at all.

 

4 hours ago, MIm20c said:

With 4 bulbs you could always do 2 led and 2 original. 

I'm doing this, but that's just because of the cost. I'm sure I'll upgrade the other two in a year or so. I just got a cheap light meter and hope to be able to do some measurements this weekend to provide a comparison between the new LEDs and the existing lights.

[L. Trotter]

Here is a letter about insurance. It appears the type of light is not an issue.

 

[jaylw314]

17 hours ago, L. Trotter said:

I have been looking at the Aero-Lite PAR 36 SunSetter Ultra. These lights are shielded for RFI and have temperature and power regulation. 

I know there is quite the controversy over the use of LED lights in general as a "like" replacement for the STD GE incandescent bulb, as most do not have a formal certification to be used in our planes. My local FSDO will not make any determination and states they will forward the paper work (337) to Oklahoma. I am aware of several guys who are placing these lights as an owner maintenance item.

Questions:

1. Has anyone actually completed a field approval (337) for LED landing lights in a Mooney and been approved?

2. What are the thoughts of an insurance company denying a claim on the grounds that "unapproved" parts were placed into service?

I had just ordered the Aero-Lite Fusion46 (PAR46) light and just got it in the mail.  Because of the controversy, I will not be installing it in my certificated aircraft this weekend when I have a chance, and I'll try not to take pictures to compare it to the original Whelan Parmetheus that I never installed in the first place 

It looks pretty good.  I hooked it up to a 12v battery and it seems much brighter, and didn't get very hot sitting in my living room.  It's bright enough sticking your hand in front of it a foot away warms up your hand pretty good.  it has 18 LEDs, and 4 of them have diffusing on the lens to spread some light out to the sides.  It's rated at 3.7A at 12V, while the Whelan was only rated at 2.6A.  and at $149 on Amazon, seems a good price point

[jaylw314]

Some photos.  The whelan parmetheus:

And the Aero-Lites Fusion46

I tried to set the camera to the same exposure.  The shots are of the hangar door, since it was daylight outside

[Cyril Gibb]

On 10/5/2018 at 7:45 PM, jaylw314 said:

I had just ordered the Aero-Lite Fusion46 (PAR46) light and just got it in the mail. ....  and at $149 on Amazon, seems a good price point

Sometimes I envy you guys in the US.  I just checked the price from Amazon.ca in Canadian dollars.  $488.80 + 13% tax + $92.63 shipping + $ unknown for customs brokerage fees and duties.

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, Cyril Gibb said:

Sometimes I envy you guys in the US.  I just checked the price from Amazon.ca in Canadian dollars.  $488.80 + 13% tax + $92.63 shipping + $ unknown for customs brokerage fees and duties.

Holy $--t!! 

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, Cyril Gibb said:

Sometimes I envy you guys in the US.  I just checked the price from Amazon.ca in Canadian dollars.  $488.80 + 13% tax + $92.63 shipping + $ unknown for customs brokerage fees and duties.

Maybe some kind soul can fly up to the Great White North and replace his faulty LED light before coming back home . . . . 

But it's a long, long trip from here. We're bracing for a tropical storm / possible hurricane later this week. Won't be bad enough here [1 Mooney hour directly inland from Panama City] to worry about moving the plane.

[Dave Morris]

LED landing lights are not unapproved, they don't interfere with radios, and I don't believe they are controversial anymore.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/parmetheus46stc.pdf

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/43.3 See paragraph g

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/appendix-A_to_part_43 See (c)(17)

 

[Cyril Gibb]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

Maybe some kind soul can fly up to the Great White North and replace his faulty LED light before coming back home . . . . 

But it's a long, long trip from here. We're bracing for a tropical storm / possible hurricane later this week. Won't be bad enough here [1 Mooney hour directly inland from Panama City] to worry about moving the plane.

Not a real problem.  We travel to the US several times a year.  Buffalo is just a short flight.

We delayed a planned trip to the outer banks due to Florence.  With a new storm coming in, we may just pop down to the southwest again like last fall.

[gsxrpilot]

I'd bet @LANCECASPER would have a good Canadian price on the LED's he sells. Mine are still working great after two years and two annuals.

[Healthpilot]

Has anyone installed the Aero Lites UltraX PAR36 5100 Lumens? If so are you happy with them?

[Pinecone]

FYI (since this necro thread has been reopened), if anyone is still worried about the legality, the Whelen lamps are PMA and they have an STC if you want to do that route.

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

FYI (since this necro thread has been reopened), if anyone is still worried about the legality, the Whelen lamps are PMA and they have an STC if you want to do that route.

There are almost no technical requirements for landing lights other than they provide illumination and don't cause a hazard (e.g., set the airplane on fire).   Landing lights are in kind of a regulatory desert that way, which is good for owners.    Even my anal grumpy regulation-stickler IA said there really aren't any requirements for landing lights.   I think he was right.   There will be plenty of folks that say otherwise, but in my research there's no requirement.    There are lots of airplane parts that aren't PMA, but it is appropriate to be careful about the differences.

 

[jaylw314]

19 hours ago, Healthpilot said:

Has anyone installed the Aero Lites UltraX PAR36 5100 Lumens? If so are you happy with them?

If nobody has, I use their PAR46 Fusion46 LED landing light and I've been really happy with it.

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

If nobody has, I use their PAR46 Fusion46 LED landing light and I've been really happy with it.

Me, too.  Run it continuously and never worry about it burning out!