Planegary Posted August 16, 2022 Report Posted August 16, 2022 I see that the trutrak is finally released for mooney on the aircraft spruce website Quote
Lionudakis Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 You would have thought they would have used a mooney in the ad Quote
EricJ Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Planegary said: I see that the trutrak is finally released for mooney on the aircraft spruce website It was a long time ago, and then they took it down. I ordered one when it was up way back when and they contacted me recently to verify whether I wanted a 12V or 24V system. In my response I asked for some details but haven't heard back. Duncan Aviation is also taking orders and are also taking payments but saying that deliveries are still "90 to 120 days out" due to presumably supply chain issues sorting through at BK. So it sounds like they're shipping "soon", but not quite yet. Quote
FlyingDude Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 Where can I find a comparison between the features and performance of trutrack and gfc500? Any articles? Reviews? Thanks Quote
donkaye Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, FlyingDude said: Where can I find a comparison between the features and performance of trutrack and gfc500? Any articles? Reviews? Thanks 1. Can't use below 700 feet. 2. No ILS or VOR approaches. 3. Will fly GPS approaches but is not certified for any approaches. 3. No pitch trim servo availability. 4. No IAS climbs or descents. 5. Does have CWS. 6. Altitude syncing to backups or other glass very limited. 7. Rate based. Google "reviews for the Aerocruz 100". There are several of them. That's where I got the above data. On the plus side it is cheap. As "Flying Dirty" says, "It's better than nothing". Having flown over 50 hours with a student who has it in a Turbo Arrow IV, I would add, "But not much". It came with the airplane. The partners are waiting for the parts to come in for the transition to the GFC 500. 1 Quote
Wes Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 That's a pretty good summary. Basically it's a cheap VFR system. 1 Quote
Hank Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 3 hours ago, donkaye said: 1. Can't use below 700 feet. 2. No ILS or VOR approaches. 3. Will fly GPS approaches but is not certified for any approaches. 3. No pitch trim servo availability. 4. No IAS climbs or descents. 5. Does have CWS. 6. Altitude syncing to backups or other glass very limited. 7. Rate based. Google "reviews for the Aerocruz 100". There are several of them. That's where I got the above data. On the plus side it is cheap. As "Flying Dirty" says, "It's better than nothing". Having flown over 50 hours with a student who has it in a Turbo Arrow IV, I would add, "But not much". It came with the airplane. The partners are waiting for the parts to come in for the transition to the GFC 500. Sounds a lot like my two Brittain systems [AccuTrak and AccuFlight], one follows a heading bug and one follows the pink line on my G430W. Pitch trim is accomplished by putting my right hand on the wheel by my seat and rolling forward for nose down or back for nose up, so no servo hookup is possible. Vintage Mooneys don't have such fanciful things, and I enjoy using the factory-installed push/pull control tubes rather than backing up and adding cables and pulleys to do the same thing. Quote
Navi Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Wes said: That's a pretty good summary. Basically it's a cheap VFR system. No it's not... it's a poor summary... of a good review of the AP by "Flying Dirty" . Ck the vid, "Flying Dirty" LIKES it. and in the comments, several are opting for the AC 100 , supported by his review. This AP is NOT rate based, it is attitude based, with it's own AHRS. This "summerizer" (?) has this basic fact wrong. There is nothing "cheap" about it, - it just has a different feature set than the other product options out there. It is a quality built American Made product with a reliability track record better than the others. I have been flying with this autopilot since March of 2018. Check the source.. always... Nav Edited August 17, 2022 by Navi 3 1 Quote
Greg Ellis Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 56 minutes ago, Navi said: No it's not... it's a poor summary... of a good review of the AP by "Flying Dirty" . Ck the vid, "Flying Dirty" LIKES it. and in the comments, several are opting for the AC 100 , supported by his review. This AP is NOT rate based, it is attitude based, with it's own AHRS. This "summerizer" (?) has this basic fact wrong. There is nothing "cheap" about it, - it just has a different feature set than the other product options out there. It is a quality built American Made product with a reliability track record better than the others. I have been flying with this autopilot since March of 2018. Check the source.. always... Nav Interesting. I just watched a video produced by Flying Dirty (dated Feb 2, 2022) and the title was "Why I am not happy with this Autopilot" Overall he states that it does some good things and some things he does not like. It is a good review but not exactly a glowing review of the autopilot. He also states towards the end of the video that if you fly a lot of IFR then this (Aerocruze) is not the autopilot for you. He also talks about what Don Kaye mentions that it has a 700 foot minimum, it will not shoot a coupled GPS approach. Flying Dirty admits that it handles climbs poorly and he hand flies his airplane to altitude and then puts on the autopilot. You have a different take on this autopilot and if it works for you then great but Flying Dirty does not give it such a glowing review. And, in fact, the following is a quote from a response by Flying Dirty on this video. He was responding to a comment made by a viewer of the video. The lines in red were written by Flying Dirty on his own video. The Aerocruze/trutrak is a peace of junk. You want to be extremely careful not to trim up too much or it will release tension and drop really fast. They’ve had several problems with that. Trimming up too much could be particularly dangerous at low altitudes and probably why they have a 700 feet limitation. I learned to trim by disconnecting the autopilot periodically and checking the trim. I never would recommend trimming up too much with that thing my friend. Maybe things have changed since February but I don't think this is actually a glowing review by Flying Dirty. Quote
donkaye Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Navi said: No it's not... it's a poor summary... of a good review of the AP by "Flying Dirty" . Ck the vid, "Flying Dirty" LIKES it. and in the comments, several are opting for the AC 100 , supported by his review. This AP is NOT rate based, it is attitude based, with it's own AHRS. This "summerizer" (?) has this basic fact wrong. There is nothing "cheap" about it, - it just has a different feature set than the other product options out there. It is a quality built American Made product with a reliability track record better than the others. I have been flying with this autopilot since March of 2018. Check the source.. always... Nav According to the designer it is a rate based AP. Watch this video. That's where I got the rate based information. 1 Quote
donkaye Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Navi said: Check the source.. always... Nav I agree. That's why I viewed as many reviews as I could find, and flew with a student who had it for over 50 hours. The facts are the facts. The Mooney is a fast and efficient plane and I personally don't think that the Aerozcruz 100 is an autopilot that should go in one. To me having a pitch trim servo for altitude hold on a long cross country is one of the best things in an AP for reduced workload. Currently, this AP does not have it. If nothing else, for resale value, I think you need one with a more powerful feature set. 2 Quote
201Steve Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, donkaye said: To me having a pitch trim servo for altitude hold on a long cross country is one of the best things in an AP for reduced workload. Currently, this AP does not have it. If nothing else, for resale value, I think you need one with a more powerful feature set. The auto trim on the 500 is unbelievably wonderful. 3 Quote
Wes Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 So is yaw damper.....regardless of what those who don't have it say. 2 1 Quote
Greg Ellis Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Wes said: So is yaw damper.....regardless of what those who don't have it say. I have a short body C model. I kind of wish I had purchased the Yaw Damper even though I was talked out of it by a number of people. While controlling the rudder is not that big of a deal in the C model, I just think it would make my GFC500 just that much more hands off. I am super happy I got the trim servo though. 2 Quote
Wes Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 If my yaw damper failed today, I'd be making arrangements to have it fixed immediately. It's wonderful. 2 Quote
Navi Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 29 minutes ago, Wes said: If my yaw damper failed today, I'd be making arrangements to have it fixed immediately. It's wonderful. Do all Mooneys need a yaw damper? I have only flown one model... It did not... Nav Quote
Navi Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 4 hours ago, donkaye said: According to the designer it is a rate based AP. Watch this video. That's where I got the rate based information. You are correct, he said "Rate Gyro" . Not totally sure what that term means in this context. I can assure you it is "Attitude based" as its primary input, and will interpret the "rate" if the excursion is large. Nav Quote
Navi Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 18 hours ago, Lionudakis said: You would have thought they would have used a Mooney in the ad AC Spruce marketing dept. appears to have some challenges N Quote
Navi Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 6 hours ago, Greg Ellis said: Interesting. I just watched a video produced by Flying Dirty (dated Feb 2, 2022) and the title was "Why I am not happy with this Autopilot" Overall he states that it does some good things and some things he does not like. It is a good review but not exactly a glowing review of the autopilot. He also states towards the end of the video that if you fly a lot of IFR then this (Aerocruze) is not the autopilot for you. He also talks about what Don Kaye mentions that it has a 700 foot minimum, it will not shoot a coupled GPS approach. Flying Dirty admits that it handles climbs poorly and he hand flies his airplane to altitude and then puts on the autopilot. You have a different take on this autopilot and if it works for you then great but Flying Dirty does not give it such a glowing review. And, in fact, the following is a quote from a response by Flying Dirty on this video. He was responding to a comment made by a viewer of the video. The lines in red were written by Flying Dirty on his own video. The Aerocruze/trutrak is a peace of junk. You want to be extremely careful not to trim up too much or it will release tension and drop really fast. They’ve had several problems with that. Trimming up too much could be particularly dangerous at low altitudes and probably why they have a 700 feet limitation. I learned to trim by disconnecting the autopilot periodically and checking the trim. I never would recommend trimming up too much with that thing my friend. Maybe things have changed since February but I don't think this is actually a glowing review by Flying Dirty. Perhaps he has more than one vid on this ?... I did not follow the thread . I have flown with this AP a lot... "trimming up too much" I cannot imagine how... ? When mine asks for trim, it needs a minor "nudge" at most. I have only spoken to one pilot that has flown the TT/AC equipped Mooney. He said it was a normal operation in all respects. One would have to trim the plane to "fight" the AP so badly that the clutch would "slip" and the aircraft would respond as he describes... >>>I learned to trim by disconnecting the autopilot periodically and checking the trim Something is very wrong here.... The AP will request trim if it needs it.. No need to disco it to check trim... Any trim needed is announced on the head.. Usually "nudge" in the trim is all that is needed. Dropping flaps suddenly may need more... Weird... N Quote
carusoam Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Navi said: Do all Mooneys need a yaw damper? I have only flown one model... It did not... Nav It’s a want vs need issue… Computing speeds have reached the power they need to be, hardware response times are quick too… people with the budget opt for the extra equipment… without the extra budget, they go without the extra equipment… Short body Mooneys are more sensitive… Long body Mooneys are less sensitive… There are no Dutch roll tendencies to any Mooney… but, flying in bumps can cause yaw… Good to hear from you Navi! Many MSers are still looking for the TruTrak option. They appreciate the extra support. Best regards, -a- Quote
Navi Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, carusoam said: It’s a want vs need issue… Computing speeds have reached the power they need to be, hardware response times are quick too… people with the budget opt for the extra equipment… without the extra budget, they go without the extra equipment… Short body Mooneys are more sensitive… Long body Mooneys are less sensitive… There are no Dutch roll tendencies to any Mooney… but, flying in bumps can cause yaw… Good to hear from you Navi! Mani MSers are still looking for the TruTrak option. They appreciate the extra support. Best regards, -a- Hi Carusoam! Yes, the same choices for Pipers and Cessnas. Get the feature set you need / want. For a lot of hard IFR, the Garmin or the S-Tec are the FAR better choices! For some IFR and VFR, the TT/AC or the Trio is a superb addition, reliable and work very well, and does exactly what it was designed to do. TT and Garmin were after and have succeeded in two completely different markets, and two very different costs. The TT is installed out the door in Cherokees for about 7500 - 8000 USD The Garmin with auto trim and yaw damper is North of 25 K. The TT is self contained and is a complete autopilot, the Garmin is not. Garmin and TT/ AC never intended to compete for the SAME customer and still do not. Arguing the differences is futile, depending on WHAT and HOW you fly, the decision is easily and readily made in the first 5 minutes, strictly on the feature set and your budget. Comparing the two is like comparing my Navigator and my F-250. A driver will never argue the merits of one vs. the other. Two WIDELY different vehicles, there should be NO doubt about which one is the most suitable for the task. I do not take the Gator if I need the truck, and I do not take the Truck when I need the Gator... Picking the correct AP for ones needs/wants is the BUYERS ultimate responsibility, not the manufacturers. IMHO anyway.. ! Good to hear from you! (Above phrases intended for other readers... ) Cheers! Nav 3 1 Quote
201Steve Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Wes said: If my yaw damper failed today, I'd be making arrangements to have it fixed immediately. It's wonderful. Man, I opted out of YD but that’s a real testimony there. What model do u fly Quote
EricJ Posted August 17, 2022 Report Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Navi said: You are correct, he said "Rate Gyro" . Not totally sure what that term means in this context. I can assure you it is "Attitude based" as its primary input, and will interpret the "rate" if the excursion is large. Nav Rate-based vs attitude-based is an implementation detail that likely doesn't affect many people if any. Since, as you point out, the TT/Aerocruz has its own AHRS internally, it is unlikely that it is solely rate-driven like an S-Tec or similar that has no attitude input or reference source. The Aerocruz has the "self-right" blue button, so it knows the attitude of the aircraft. I think "rate-based" in this case just reveals a little about the internal control-system architecture engineering tradeoffs chosen, probably to avoid needing to integrate its own GPS reference system to minimize the AHRS drift. Just my guesses. 1 Quote
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