Guest Spike Kavalench Posted June 18, 2018 Report Posted June 18, 2018 So today I finally got my new to me M20B up high enough to rev up the turbo, and it works way better than I imagined! I got a very noticeable power and climb performance increase at 6500’! Idig it! Sorry I didn’t write any numbers down but I am quite pleased with how well it works. Quote
carusoam Posted June 18, 2018 Report Posted June 18, 2018 Take a Pic and post it next time... This way everyone can celebrate the win! Congrats on getting the M20B up in the air. Did you bring it home? Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
tomgo2 Posted June 18, 2018 Report Posted June 18, 2018 Congrats! Great to hear how much you like it. 2 Quote
Guest Spike Kavalench Posted June 23, 2018 Report Posted June 23, 2018 Yes I moved her to Boundary Bay which is a little closer to home. Should be able to spend more time with her now! Quote
JETmachine Posted June 24, 2018 Report Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) Spike, What max manifold psi do you plan as a limit to keep from over-boosting the O-360? My RayJay experience is nada. Some here no doubt have critical #s below 5K' with that RayJay. It sounds like fun. Keep us posted. jt Edited June 24, 2018 by JETmachine Quote
Guest Spike Kavalench Posted October 13, 2018 Report Posted October 13, 2018 Max MP is posted in a chart on the panel, sorry I don’t have it handy. But in general, I will only use the turbo to restore sea level mp if required during climb. It’s just a turbo normalizer kind of thing, not for boosting power above factory specs. Quote
wcb Posted October 13, 2018 Report Posted October 13, 2018 I have RayJay on my F. I also "digit". I usually try to fly somewhere between 7500 and 12500 (still looking to get into the high teens with 02) I do not engage turbo until 5k and can have greater than 27mp(upto 30ish), but the turbo poh says continues ops at 27mp. Had TAS around 200mph the other day coming back from DMAX at IAS 157 mph, 12.5 feet, at 57 OAT and 27 MP slight head wind gave me around 188 ground speed. 1 Quote
Guest Spike Kavalench Posted October 13, 2018 Report Posted October 13, 2018 Awesome!!!! Thanks for sharing. I wasn't planning on using it during cruise but I may give that a try. Any chance of sending a digital copy of your Rayjay POH? Quote
lifendet Posted October 15, 2018 Report Posted October 15, 2018 Nice.. Sounds like a worthwhile add. Quote
wcb Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 I will say I do not know if it really makes any real financial sense to add one but then again we are talking airplanes where nothing really makes financial sense. With that being said, buying one with one already installed is big thumbs up for me. 2 Quote
jnisley Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 I recorded these numbers on a flight several years ago. 17,800' level flight MP 24.5 (waste gate fully closed) (discovered later that it wasn't closing fully due to linkage needing adjustment, hence the lower MP) RPM 2500 FF 11gph (needed to keep it at least 11 to keep cylinder temp in range) IAS 124kts TAS 169kts (according to TAS1000 fuel air computer) GS 149kts Oil temp 194 degrees OAT 22 degrees F #1-316 1407, #2-388 1270, #3-375 1377, #4-328 1405 I kept it set at 25/25 all the way thru 17,000, ( at 17,800 I still had 24.5mp) with fuel flow around 13.8 to keep cylinders below 385, my climb rate was around 250-350fpm @115IAS It's the RayJay, installed just after leaving the factory in 1969, in the last 1100 hours we sent the turbo out once for overhaul, Approved Turbo Components from California overhauled it for $1051.57 (2007) I'm sure for that money they didn't need to replace any major components. It has cost us very little but we don't use it much (flying mostly in the east) but I would expect heavy use would change that. 1 Quote
Guest Spike Kavalench Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 Well after the surprise of having to do an IRAN overhaul on my engine and spending over 20,000 dollars to do it, I am rethinking the affordability of owning an airplane at all at this stage of my life, nearing retirement and all.. So, truth be told, I would probably sell my Rayjay Turbo equipped 61 M20B and take a huge loss right about now. I’m sure it’s only worth about 35k given it’s age and I’m into it for a lot more than that, the exact number both hard to calculate and not something I’d really want to know anyway, but if someone showed up with 35k USD I’d have a hard time saying no right about now. Not advertising it, just mulling it around... Quote
M20F Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 30 minutes ago, jnisley said: TAS 169kts (according to TAS1000 fuel air computer) It's the RayJay, installed just after leaving the factory in 1969, in the last 1100 hours we sent the turbo out once for overhaul, Approved Turbo Components from California overhauled it for $1051.57 (2007) I'm sure for that money they didn't need to replace any major components. It has cost us very little but we don't use it much (flying mostly in the east) but I would expect heavy use would change that. I see about the same on my M20F about 160-170 between 19-21. I have had it to 240 but it gets really sloppy beyond 21. I use it mostly for climbing and once or twice a year on 700+ trips where the winds agree. It takes about 30-40 mins (took about 50 to get to 240) so hard to make up what you lose in the climb. It definitely helps for the climb to 9-11k which is where I fly the most. I did enjoy center telling a DL flight that traffic was a Mooney passing above them at 240 though. Pricewise there are so many Rayjays on cars, boats, planes, and motorcycles that they are ridiculously cheap to maintain and essentially bulletproof. 2 Quote
JETmachine Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Spike Kavalench said: Well after the surprise of having to do an IRAN overhaul on my engine Steve, Am I reading your posts correctly? Did the engine go south over the weekend?! If yes, was it from over-boosting the engine with the Ray-Jay Turbo? jt Flying from the SF Bay Area over western mountians, I've lusted for a turbo. So, following this thread is much more intersting that sales propagnda. NOTE: A good friend has an M20 K. The '63 (light/short) M20C-modified w/200hp leaves the K in the dust up to 5'K when he blows by me like I'm in revears. Years ago, flying out of Watertown into Oshkosh (80 Mooney formation-yikes) I was wingman to a 231 with the '63C 200hp. In the climbing departure to the I had to power back to maintain position with the 231 (heavier/longer). Again, at 5K, the game is over as the turbo eats my lunch. Question: Can a RayJay be fitted to a IO-360A3B6D, or do they only attach to carburated engines? Quote
M20F Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, JETmachine said: Question: Can a RayJay be fitted to a IO-360A3B6D, or do they only attach to carburated engines? They can be fit to almost anything the STC list was pretty diverse. In the case of Mooney either the airframe or engine STC (forget which) is no longer available so exceptionally complicated/expensive to do today. Plenty of them out there to buy though. Quote
JETmachine Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 Thanks, Mike. So, if someone is parting out an STC'd RayJay equiped Mooney M20C, the parts-buyer could install the the turbo with the original STC attached to the 337 avoiding a nasty $$$ installation bill, maybe. Quote
1964-M20E Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 40 minutes ago, M20F said: They can be fit to almost anything the STC list was pretty diverse. In the case of Mooney either the airframe or engine STC (forget which) is no longer available so exceptionally complicated/expensive to do today. Plenty of them out there to buy though. Unless I am mistaken @tomgo2 stated in another post that they now have the Mooney airframe STC and would be offering kits in the near future. I believe they already had the engine STC. @tomgo2 1 Quote
Ragsf15e Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, 1964-M20E said: Unless I am mistaken @tomgo2 stated in another post that they now have the Mooney airframe STC and would be offering kits in the near future. I believe they already had the engine STC. @tomgo2 Just curious, who’s “they”? Ray Jay or another builder? Would definitely be nice for my F out west... Quote
wcb Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 This in the post WTB a RayJay turbo tomgo2 26 Advanced Member Supporter 26 47 posts LocationSan Antonio, TX Reg #:N234BG Model:PA-30 Report post Posted Saturday at 03:01 PM Hi Eddie, we (RAJAY) own the STC for the M20J. We are taking deposits now to be put on a waitlist. We want to have at least 3 orders before we go into production. If you are interested in putting a $1,000 fully-refundable deposit down, please contact sales@rajay.aero for more information. We haven't nailed down the exact cost for the M20J, but we would estimate a purchase price for the kit to be somewhere around $28K plus 50 hours of installation labor. 1 Quote
tomgo2 Posted October 16, 2018 Report Posted October 16, 2018 Hi Folks - that is correct. Give us a call if you are interested in a new installation. We need at least 3 deposits to get the ball rolling. It is too speculative to begin without firm orders. www.rajay.aero Tom Quote
Guest Spike Kavalench Posted October 17, 2018 Report Posted October 17, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 9:46 AM, JETmachine said: Steve, Am I reading your posts correctly? Did the engine go south over the weekend?! If yes, was it from over-boosting the engine with the Ray-Jay Turbo? jt Flying from the SF Bay Area over western mountians, I've lusted for a turbo. So, following this thread is much more intersting that sales propagnda. NOTE: A good friend has an M20 K. The '63 (light/short) M20C-modified w/200hp leaves the K in the dust up to 5'K when he blows by me like I'm in revears. Years ago, flying out of Watertown into Oshkosh (80 Mooney formation-yikes) I was wingman to a 231 with the '63C 200hp. In the climbing departure to the I had to power back to maintain position with the 231 (heavier/longer). Again, at 5K, the game is over as the turbo eats my lunch. Question: Can a RayJay be fitted to a IO-360A3B6D, or do they only attach to carburated engines? No, it wasn’t an over boost issue. The Arcraft Maintenance Engineer/shop owner who sold me the airplane had a great story.. he told me that he had found a very small amount of metal in the oil, and that he had purchased the plane from the previous owner who didn’t want to deal with it. He said he pulled the cylinders and did the piston pin SB and the engine looked great. Very common cause of metal in Lycomings, he said. He said that he was sure it was a good engine. So I figured, sounds reasonable. After I bought it, however, two of his ex employees warned me that they had found substantially more than a “small amount” of metal and that they had told the shop owner the airplane should be grounded. That didn’t happen. The engine was reassembled and the plane was sold to me with a fresh annual inspection, fully “servicable”. I had already paid for the plane after hearing this revelation so I flew it for five hours and we pulled the suction screen (which is STEP NUMBER ONE in Lycoming’s SB describing what to do when metal is found in the oil). Well we found so much metal and crud jammed in there it was obvious the screen had never been removed. (Step number ONE, remember..) So we grounded the plane and pulled the engine for overhaul. They found one main bearing chewing itself up and the cam and lifters were pitted. “Well why no pre-buy inspection? Idiot?” you might say.. Well you’re not wrong, and I shoulda, but when you buy a plane from a licensed mechanic who does pre-buy inspections for a living and he signs it off as serviceable, there is or should be an expectation you are getting a serviceable airplane. I was wrong to expect that. Chalk it up to one really expensive life lesson. But at least I have an engine I now KNOW is dependable. And that’s all I’m sayin about that. For now. Quote
tomgo2 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Posted October 17, 2018 @JETmachine, do you own an M20C and interested in a RAJAY kit? We have a used kit that we would refurbish and do the installation at one of our Authorized Service Centers if you are interested. The marketing material from 1985 shows the M20C ceiling at FL300 and cruise at 190 knots @ FL200 with 75% power.... Quote
MIm20c Posted October 17, 2018 Report Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, tomgo2 said: The marketing material from 1985 shows the M20C ceiling at FL300 and cruise at 190 knots @ FL200 with 75% power.... Citation 1234A traffic 10 o’clock altitude...180 hp Mooney at 29k. All joking aside my service ceiling is 25k and was the aircraft used to certify the TN C in the mid 80’s. 190 would sure be nice. However, I don’t think my old girl will spin the wheels fast enough. Planning on doing some extensive testing this winter, hopefully up to at least 22. Quote
tomgo2 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Posted October 17, 2018 Yeah...I have to admit, those numbers are in a marketing brochure I'd love to hear your experiences and updates as you stretch her legs and put her running shoes on! Any possibility in doing some videos that could be posted on YouTube or possibly the RAJAY website would be greatly appreciated. Quote
carusoam Posted October 17, 2018 Report Posted October 17, 2018 17 hours ago, Spike Kavalench said: No, it wasn’t an over boost issue. The Arcraft Maintenance Engineer/shop owner who sold me the airplane had a great story.. he For the record... PPI needs to be independent of the seller and past maintainer... The reasons for this are pretty clear as defined by this situation... Sorry to hear your woes. Wanting to help the next guy. The person that doesn’t quite know buying used machines... The older the plane, and the more owners in its history are more reasons for a solid PPI... Then there are going to be people that are willing to take the risk... What do you do when the plane sales guy has told you a false story, the mechanics tell you it is false story, but you own the plane? there are a few MSers around here that have bought into cam problems. Age of the buyer is independent... there are young taking risks and nearing retirement taking risks... My first purchase, M20C... Stuck a valve in the first 10 hours... Hang out around MS. Learn more about what you are doing... Ask more questions... take more advice... Determine your next steps... don’t guess. Informed guesses are going to be better than uninformed guesses... Don’t beat yourself up... finding rusty cams takes a specific effort to look for it. Knowing PPIs comes with some effort and cost. Having a plane fail the PPI is expensive and pays off, but leaves you empty handed... having to start anew. Going forwards...? The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t... You used to have an M20B with an engine in unknown condition. Now you have one in perfectly known condition... take care of it. Fly early and often... Short bodies make great retirement planes... The Ppi is like a piece of insurance, designed specifically to protect your wallet. Nothing more... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote
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