IO360A1A intake Bellows

[Stephen]

@acpartswhse

On the search for an intake bellows.  IA doing annual on 1969 F model indicates that the bellows is shot.  think it *may* be part 45 here based on the description.  

 

[Igor_U]

Part used to be ready available and cost was $300 when I needed it few years ago. I've ordered mine from LASAR.

Main reason for failure is lower cowl removal during annual. My IA and I don't do that anymore if don't have to; he found a way to inspect the exhaust with cowl on.

 

[RobertGary1]

+1 on saving the $300 every few years by not dropping the lower cowl. 

The part is referred to as the intake boot. Mooney should still be selling them. Call your favorite Msc -l

 

-Robert

[Guitarmaster]

You can also get them from SWTA.

 

[Stephen]

thanks, I think the ones above are pictured for 0360 vs my IO360 but I think the above guidance is still relevant. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

@acpartswhse

On the search for an intake bellows.  IA doing annual on 1969 F model indicates that the bellows is shot.  think it *may* be part 45 here based on the description.  

 

That’s a C model not F model.

Clarence

[Guest]

Here is the F model, item 37, p/n 600115-005.

Clarence

[Stephen]

Gracias Clarence

[75_M20F]

What was the word on your engine? Good I hope?

[Stephen]

13 hours ago, ABCDEF said:

What was the word on your engine? Good I hope?

Patty @ east texas flying service thought the engine may be fine, and the amount of metal in my filter may be due to the high humidity and the plane sitting for around 6 weeks. So, she pulled the lower screen (which was clean) and sent an oil sample in for inspection (it had < 10 hrs on it) but it came out completely clean. So ... we are on a filter every 10 hrs watch program but she thinks the engine is likely fine.... trust but verify. I definitely hope that turns out to be the case. 

[75_M20F]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:16 AM, Stephen said:

Patty @ east texas flying service thought the engine may be fine, and the amount of metal in my filter may be due to the high humidity and the plane sitting for around 6 weeks. So, she pulled the lower screen (which was clean) and sent an oil sample in for inspection (it had < 10 hrs on it) but it came out completely clean. So ... we are on a filter every 10 hrs watch program but she thinks the engine is likely fine.... trust but verify. I definitely hope that turns out to be the case. 

Good to hear!

[Stephen]

I’m AOG for this bellows ; @Alan Fox @acpartswhse  

 

Mooney is backordered and having Manuf issues with these so SWTA / Lasar etc have none. Any servicable/ repairable  ones out the here?

[Stephen]

7 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I’m AOG for this bellows ; @Alan Fox @acpartswhse  

 

Mooney is backordered and having Manuf issues with these so SWTA / Lasar etc have none. Any servicable/ repairable  ones out the here?

Woot! Patty at East Texas Air found a used one for me ; disregard above request but note heads up on shortage issue if affected.

[Yetti]

Seems like Owner produced part is in our future.    There was someone that was going to make these, with modern materials.   @carusoam would seem to know the best modern material for these.    Polyurathane seems reasonable to me.  

These guys seem to be ones in line for the owner produced part

https://www.sculpteo.com/en/materials/clip-resin-material/flexible-polyurethane-clip-resin-material/

 

 

 

[carusoam]

That is an interesting opportunity Yetti.

Choosing the right material is going to be a challenge.... it has to live in the ‘under the hood environment’ which could include rain and moisture...

From the Sculpteo site...   

“With regards to water qualities, resin is water-resistant but not waterproof. Thus, the 3D object must not rest in contact with water for extended periods of time. In terms of temperature, if the plastic is subjected to heat above 50°C (122°F), it is possible that the physical form of the object can significantly altered.”

 

Modern automotive air intakes are typically molded by the 10,000s.  This allows them to be nicely shaped, cross-linked, tough, UV, moisture, and 02 resistant.....

Our current air intake hoses appear to be hand made by a company familiar with the rubber lay-up process... start with a fabric base and add the rubber component, bake in an oven for the x-linking reaction to occur... do this a couple of times to build up layers...

There are probably similar needs in the kit plane and kit car building industries...

It is amazing to see how long these parts have lasted.

a google search for engine air intake custom.... reveals a few companies that build hoses and parts for similar needs...

Best regards,

-a-

[Stephen]

4 hours ago, Yetti said:

Seems like Owner produced part is in our future.    There was someone that was going to make these, with modern materials.   @carusoam would seem to know the best modern material for these.    Polyurathane seems reasonable to me.  

These guys seem to be ones in line for the owner produced part

https://www.sculpteo.com/en/materials/clip-resin-material/flexible-polyurethane-clip-resin-material/

 

 

 

I would like to see one; hopefully Patty hasn't 86'd my old one. Would be interesting to get away from terminal supply chain constipation. 

[Jerry Pressley]

i have a good used one that would work until you find a new one   423 231 3491

[Stephen]

5 hours ago, acpartswhse said:

i have a good used one that would work until you find a new one   423 231 3491

I ended up finding a used one in TX but will follow up on another inquiry. 

[Guest]

I’m putting my last new one on an F model, Mooney advises that they will have inventory in early July.

Clarence

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

I’m putting my last new one on an F model, Mooney advises that they will have inventory in early July.

Clarence

Thanks for the update Clarence. Hopefully this new batch meet Mooney’s standards. 

[1964-M20E]

Yeah $300 +/- is pretty expensive for the boot but at the end of the day is it really worth trying to make a new molded rubber one if the originals are available?  I thought of using a piece of 2 1/2" maybe 3" scat hose and making an adapter to fit on the throttle body and the cowling with a flat piece of aluminum and a piece of 2 1/2" aluminum pipe.  It's simple, short, easily replaceable with commonly available items.   The most fabrication you have is some cutting and welding on aluminum.

Is there any real drawback to this?  Intake collapsing maybe?  Maybe not enough room to make it work?  There is very little differential pressure on this part and it would not be very long at all maybe 2" of unsupported duct for the flex between the engine and cowling.  Surely the SCAT is capable of handing anything the rubber boot we now have has to handle.

Don't other manufacturers use SCAT to direct intake air form the filter to the throttle body or carburetor?  I've really only worked on the Mooney with my A&P of course.

Shoot away if you want.  Just my thoughts.

[RobertGary1]

5 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

Yeah $300 +/- is pretty expensive for the boot but at the end of the day is it really worth trying to make a new molded rubber one if the originals are available?  I thought of using a piece of 2 1/2" maybe 3" scat hose and making an adapter to fit on the throttle body and the cowling with a flat piece of aluminum and a piece of 2 1/2" aluminum pipe.  It's simple, short, easily replaceable with commonly available items.   The most fabrication you have is some cutting and welding on aluminum.

Is there any real drawback to this?  Intake collapsing maybe?  Maybe not enough room to make it work?  There is very little differential pressure on this part and it would not be very long at all maybe 2" of unsupported duct for the flex between the engine and cowling.  Surely the SCAT is capable of handing anything the rubber boot we now have has to handle.

Don't other manufacturers use SCAT to direct intake air form the filter to the throttle body or carburetor?  I've really only worked on the Mooney with my A&P of course.

Shoot away if you want.  Just my thoughts.

Are you sure the pressure differential is minimal? I’d think it would be a lot. 

-Robert 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

Yeah $300 +/- is pretty expensive for the boot but at the end of the day is it really worth trying to make a new molded rubber one if the originals are available?  I thought of using a piece of 2 1/2" maybe 3" scat hose and making an adapter to fit on the throttle body and the cowling with a flat piece of aluminum and a piece of 2 1/2" aluminum pipe.  It's simple, short, easily replaceable with commonly available items.   The most fabrication you have is some cutting and welding on aluminum.

Is there any real drawback to this?  Intake collapsing maybe?  Maybe not enough room to make it work?  There is very little differential pressure on this part and it would not be very long at all maybe 2" of unsupported duct for the flex between the engine and cowling.  Surely the SCAT is capable of handing anything the rubber boot we now have has to handle.

Don't other manufacturers use SCAT to direct intake air form the filter to the throttle body or carburetor?  I've really only worked on the Mooney with my A&P of course.

Shoot away if you want.  Just my thoughts.

There is an AD on Piper Arrows for collapsed intake hoses made of Sact ducting.

Clarence

[1964-M20E]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

Are you sure the pressure differential is minimal? I’d think it would be a lot. 

-Robert 

 I'm thinking the only restriction you have is the air filter and that should be minimal 0.5" the rest of the pressure drop from ambient comes from the throttle body if the air-filter is clogged you have the bypass.

An easy way to find out would be to put an old MP gauge with a line hooked to the air box just behind the filter.

 

 

[1964-M20E]

41 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

There is an AD on Piper Arrows for collapsed intake hoses made of Sact ducting.

Clarence

I have seen that happen on a Beech Musketeer but the hose was not replaced after a water landing.  This did cause another off airport emergency landing due to a collapsed hose.   Also the length of unsupported Scat hose would be minimal in the E and F models only about 2" just enough to allow for vibrations between the cowling and the engine.