New Member - Hopefully New Owner

[GoFastPro]

Fellow Aviators,

Long time listener; first time caller...  I recently took a job a long way down the road and will commute weekly.  Figured it was time to move on from my local club to buy my own wings of glory.  Mooneys have been the only birds I've been interested in owning personally (until of course I can afford a Falcon 2000).

Wednesday I'm going to inspect and potentially purchase a 1970 M20F (Technically, an Aerostar.  Am I still allowed here?) and there are a couple of questions (some important; some of trivial):

- Is Positive Control is on all pre-J M20's

- Anything particular about it being an Aerostar I should be aware of?

- How concerned is everyone with a previous gear up landing?  The engine was not overhauled; they just complied with the prop strike AD.  Engine has had a little over 400hrs since the incident.  The A&P that did the recent annual said the tube frame all looked good on the bottom.

- Everyone seems to whine about how difficult Mooneys are to work on.  Should I expect to pay a premium for repairs?

Any help or opinions are appreciated!

All the Best,

Gren

[Marauder]

  On 4/17/2018 at 2:03 PM, GoFastPro said:

Fellow Aviators,

Long time listener; first time caller...  I recently took a job a long way down the road and will commute weekly.  Figured it was time to move on from my local club to buy my own wings of glory.  Mooneys have been the only birds I've been interested in owning personally (until of course I can afford a Falcon 2000).

Wednesday I'm going to inspect and potentially purchase a 1970 M20F (Technically, an Aerostar.  Am I still allowed here?) and there are a couple of questions (some important; some of trivial):

- Is Positive Control is on all pre-J M20's

- Anything particular about it being an Aerostar I should be aware of?

- How concerned is everyone with a previous gear up landing?  The engine was not overhauled; they just complied with the prop strike AD.  Engine has had a little over 400hrs since the incident.  The A&P that did the recent annual said the tube frame all looked good on the bottom.

- Everyone seems to whine about how difficult Mooneys are to work on.  Should I expect to pay a premium for repairs?

Any help or opinions are appreciated!

All the Best,

Gren

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I think PC was on most if not all of the later pre-Js. I know it was on my 75 F. "Aerostar" made planes still followed the same manufacturing requirements as other Mooneys. There was a late 60s or early 70s model that had a weird tip on the top of the tail. Is this one of them?

Gear ups happened to a lot of Mooneys. I would look for the log entries to show that it was handled properly. There should be at a minimum an IRAN of a Lycoming engine and documentation that the airframe and prop were dealt with properly.

Mooneys are tight under the panel but the rest of the airframe I don't think is that much more difficult. Where the difficulty is when the mechanic is not familiar with Mooneys.

 

[Hank]

My C is also from 1970, but I don't recall seeing anything with "Aerostar" on it. So I'd say no problem for your 1970 F, either.

Gear ups happen, what's important is how it was repaired. The logs will tell the story, and a quick inspection by a knowledgeable person will confirm what they say. 400 hours should be long enough ago to not worry overmuch; mine was 182 hours before I bought. 

Welcome to the family! Learn the correct speed, don't go too fast around the pattern, and never push forward on the yoke to land . . . .

[GoFastPro]

Thank you for all the help guys!

Yes, mine (soon) has the tail with the beak on the top.

Looks like it was relativity minor in the logs. Airframe indicates belly panels replaced with no damage to tube-frame; Engine indicates compliance with AD 2004-10-14 prop strike inspection; conspicuously there is nothing in the prop log...  There is a 100hr inspection about 13 months before the incident and then 1mo after: "I certify that this propeller has been inspected IAW an annual inspection."  Every year after that it has the annual inspection.  About 50hrs a year average since the incident.

My first instructor was a stickler for pattern speeds.  He said if I ever wanted to fly anything fast and land somewhere short you need to know how to nail pattern speeds.  Learning in NorCal there are a lot of fun places to see with less than 2400' to land.  Not a problem in a C162 or C172; a little trickier in a Piaggio!

Gren

 

[Hank]

Your prop log won't show anything after a gear up landing, as the old prop is recycled and a new one installed. Just like if the engine is replaced, the engine log won't show anything.

[carusoam]

Aerostar had two defining characteristics... of which few remain in the field...

The Buttler buttonhook at the top of the tail...

And the extended stinger at the bottom of the tail...

Both made them look fast in a funky 70’s stereotypical type of style... 

So much of the history of each plane is in the logs...  see what else has been added or taken out over the years...

There is a list around here of each year Mooney built planes.  Including what was added or removed from each model.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[LANCECASPER]

  On 4/18/2018 at 1:32 AM, GoFastPro said:

Yes, mine (soon) has the tail with the beak on the top.

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I know it's difficult, but try not to get emotionally involved in the airplane until a good set of eyes look it over thoroughly. Some of the best money on a pre-buy is for an airplane you walk away from. It's theirs until you find out that you have a winner.

[Guest]

  On 4/18/2018 at 1:32 AM, GoFastPro said:

Thank you for all the help guys!

Yes, mine (soon) has the tail with the beak on the top.

Looks like it was relativity minor in the logs. Airframe indicates belly panels replaced with no damage to tube-frame; Engine indicates compliance with AD 2004-10-14 prop strike inspection; conspicuously there is nothing in the prop log...  There is a 100hr inspection about 13 months before the incident and then 1mo after: "I certify that this propeller has been inspected IAW an annual inspection."  Every year after that it has the annual inspection.  About 50hrs a year average since the incident.

My first instructor was a stickler for pattern speeds.  He said if I ever wanted to fly anything fast and land somewhere short you need to know how to nail pattern speeds.  Learning in NorCal there are a lot of fun places to see with less than 2400' to land.  Not a problem in a C162 or C172; a little trickier in a Piaggio!

Gren

 

Expand  

The engine AD and SB475 are the bare minimum requirements following a prop strike.  Most insurance companies will pay for a complete tear down.  The depth of inspection depends on how badly the blades were damaged.

If the propeller was repaired there should a log entry, if it was replaced the new log book should reflect its new home on this Mooney.

Check out the download section for a PPI check list.

Clarence

 

[BigD]

My 1965 M20C has Positive Control- although it no longer works  below is a great site to see all variants and history  Good luck in your search! 

http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/Mooney/31.htm

From Wikipedia: 

In 1965, a new feature was introduced to the M20. It was called "positive control" and was a single-axis autopilot produced by Brittain Industries. It maintained the wings of the airplane in a level position unless a button on the control wheel was depressed for turns and banks. It was a controversial feature, liked by some pilots and disliked by others.^[20][21] Production and sales of the M20 continued to increase. In 1966, a total of 760 units was delivered, including 280 of the M20C Mark 21 planes and 473 of the M20E Super 21s. A new model, the M20F Executive 21, offered more legroom due to a 10-inch (25 cm) increase in cabin length which also allowed for a third fuselage side window.^[3][5][17] It had 64 US gallons (240 l) of fuel capacity compared to 52 US gallons (200 l) in earlier models, and grossed an additional 165 pounds (75 kg). This year, the company exceeded $1,000,000 in profits.^[22]