STEC 3100 Digital Autopilot

[Jeff_S]

I spoke with Barry LeBlanc this morning at length to understand the situation regarding the G1000 implementation.  They are still working with Garmin to understand data transfer specifics, which apparently are different in the G1000 than in the other components. Barry felt that they would have a solid answer within 2 weeks.  He also wanted to reiterate that their Pre-STC offer (as noted extensively in this thread) is risk-free and non-binding, with no deposit required. In his exact words:

"Importantly, the POs are non-binding (until the STC is issued and we start building the system) so if your circumstances change, you are not on the obligated."

Because of this, I have given my shop the go-ahead to issue a PO so they can get the committed number they need to move forward.  I would urge anyone who's on the fence to do the same since there is no deposit required and the ability to pull out of the deal.

Rolling the dice...let's see if we can add these important safety advances to our planes! Barry told me how much nicer the 3100 tracks the localizer and glide path compared to the 55x...the 55x snakes the localizer like a newbie IFR pilot!

[Marauder]

17 minutes ago, Jeff_S said:

I spoke with Barry LeBlanc this morning at length to understand the situation regarding the G1000 implementation.  They are still working with Garmin to understand data transfer specifics, which apparently are different in the G1000 then in the other components. Barry felt that they would have a solid answer within 2 weeks.  He also wanted to reiterate that their Pre-STC offer (as noted extensively in this thread) is risk-free and non-binding, with no deposit required. In his exact words:

"Importantly, the POs are non-binding (until the STC is issued and we start building the system) so if your circumstances change, you are not on the obligated."

Because of this, I have given my shop the go-ahead to issue a PO so they can get the committed number they need to move forward.  I would urge anyone who's on the fence to do the same since there is no deposit required and the ability to pull out of the deal.

Rolling the dice...let's see if we can add these important safety advances to our planes! Barry told me how much nicer the 3100 tracks the localizer and glide path compared to the 55x...the 55x snakes the localizer like a newbie IFR pilot!

What is troubling me Jeff is why do they need the PO. So they can determine if they should spend the money on the STC? That would make sense if there was a deposit involved. Strange...

[Cris]

Well with Jeff-S and Marauder I make that just two short of the 15 PO’s required. Maybe Stec has those in hand. Last year I had the misfortune to place a deposit on an  proposed ADSB solution. That company went out of business and my deposit was lost. In my head I’ll not do that again and maybe companies like Genysis are simply trying to gauge interest while maintaining good customer relations intended to make one comfortable with their decision. Look how many questions seem to continue to percolate. A cancellable order required me to do some work ie get a quote from my shop and get them to enter the P.O. so not completely free considering my time and travel cost but certainly makes me comfortable. Good marketing. 

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Jeff_S said:

Barry told me how much nicer the 3100 tracks the localizer and glide path compared to the 55x...the 55x snakes the localizer like a newbie IFR pilot!

I had an S-TEC 55X on a Mirage and an S-TEC 550 on a Meridian - I nicknamed the S-TEC the S-TURN on the approach. I'm sure the controllers thought I had been drinking.

The previous year Piper had put the King KFC-225 in the Mirage, the 55x was a huge downgrade. After flying the Bravo with the KFC-150 before that I wanted to get an "EXPERIMENTAL" placard for the Mirage.

[Bob_Belville]

I might be willing to add my name to the list of conditional POs. Can someone give me a budget cost for going from a STEC50 with a STEC (manual) electric trim connected to Aspen. Nav is GTN 750 with KX155 w GS as #2. 

Can the 3100 come as a square panel box to swap out with the STEC50? 

[Danb]

Lance hopefully the 3100 response I’ll be much better than the S-tec55x, the x could not hold altitude in nasty turbulence, it seemed to chase the bars, hand flying was much better in the turbulence than gettin ill on the roller coaster.

[Bob_Belville]

4 minutes ago, Danb said:

Lance hopefully the 3100 response I’ll be much better than the S-tec55x, the x could not hold altitude in nasty turbulence, it seemed to chase the bars, hand flying was much better in the turbulence than gettin ill on the roller coaster.

That's interesting. I've been well satisfied with my old STEC 50 both tracking a localizer and holding altitude in turbulence. And my short coupled little E is not very solid in the pitch axis. 

[Txbyker]

I just sent my shop a request to order.

Russ

[201Mooniac]

We should be getting close.  Barry emailed me back today and said we are close to the 15 and he would have a full count on Monday.

[Cris]

2 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

I might be willing to add my name to the list of conditional POs. Can someone give me a budget cost for going from a STEC50 with a STEC (manual) electric trim connected to Aspen. Nav is GTN 750 with KX155 w GS as #2. 

Can the 3100 come as a square panel box to swap out with the STEC50? 

 Bob The 3100 form factor is only shown as  6.25 W for the radio rack X 1.45h X 9”d according to the brochure. I intend to mount it in front of the right seat so my right seater can operate it easily. In terms of cost read thru this thread as there is info related to the equipment. In my case I have an Stec 30 similar capability to your 50 and with manual electric trim. The equipment cost is $10495 list. I have an Stec HSI so can’t comment on that hookup with the Aspen other than to say the brochure states the Aspen EFD is accepted for Heading and navigation.  I’m thinking about 30-40 hours of install time for me. This is based on similar quotes for me to install an Stec 55X before I learned of the 3100. This is roughly 1/2 the time/cost to install a new autopilot with new servo’s. If you read the install manual from some of the experimental autopilots there is a lot to do with the servo installation not to mention one has to take out the existing servo’s. Hope this helps. 

[Marauder]

I had an S-TEC 55X on a Mirage and an S-TEC 550 on a Meridian - I nicknamed the S-TEC the S-TURN on the approach. I'm sure the controllers thought I had been drinking.
The previous year Piper had put the King KFC-225 in the Mirage, the 55x was a huge downgrade. After flying the Bravo with the KFC-150 before that I wanted to get an "EXPERIMENTAL" placard for the Mirage.

Lance - I have been told by a couple of avionics shops that the 55X is no where near as precise as the 60-2. I wonder if it because of the form factor. I think all of the computers are built into the panel box while I have separate roll and pitch computer boxes in the avionics bay.

I have never experienced the S turning. The only I have experienced is on really calm days a slight pitch oscillation. And I mean slight. Not enough to show anything on the VSI or even the Aspen AI. Just a little bopping I can feel in the seat of the pants. It might be thermals for I know.


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[LANCECASPER]

8 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Lance - I have been told by a couple of avionics shops that the 55X is no where near as precise as the 60-2. I wonder if it because of the form factor. I think all of the computers are built into the panel box while I have separate roll and pitch computer boxes in the avionics bay.

I have never experienced the S turning. The only I have experienced is on really calm days a slight pitch oscillation. And I mean slight. Not enough to show anything on the VSI or even the Aspen AI. Just a little bopping I can feel in the seat of the pants. It might be thermals for I know.


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The Piper dealer only made it worse. I finally flew it up to Mineral Wells and they worked on it for a day while I waited and I have to admit it was considerably better, but still not even approaching precise. I've heard also that the 60-2 is much better, even though it's a previous design.

I will say that the 55x kept me proficient at hand flying approaches. Sometimes it would intercept, sometimes it wouldn't. Sometimes it would capture the glideslope, sometimes it wouldn't. Sadly the STEC550 in the Meridian wasn't much better. I have heard though that the attitude based Digital Magic 1500 that they replaced it with was excellent, so I would expect that the 3100 is a great replacement for a 55x.

[201Mooniac]

2 hours ago, Txbyker said:

 

14 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

The Piper dealer only made it worse. I finally flew it up to Mineral Wells and they worked on it for a day while I waited and I have to admit it was considerably better, but still not even approaching precise. I've heard also that the 60-2 is much better, even though it's a previous design.

I will say that the 55x kept me proficient at hand flying approaches. Sometimes it would intercept, sometimes it wouldn't. Sometimes it would capture the glideslope, sometimes it wouldn't. Sadly the STEC550 in the Meridian wasn't much better. I have heard though that the attitude based Digital Magic 1500 that they replaced it with was excellent, so I would expect that the 3100 is a great replacement for a 55x.

Interesting, my 55x will fly approaches fairly well.  It is slow to respond to significant turbulance but it does an admirable job most of the time.

[Marauder]

Whomever speaks with Barry, I know for a fact my avionics shop hasn’t quoted me the upgrade. So his count will be one light.


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[201Mooniac]

Yes, I found mine hadn't sent it in yet either.  I contacted them this afternoon and they will get a PO sent in.

[MICKEY]

So I have a 67 M20F with an STEC 60-2.  I have not decided on an EFIS yet (Dual G5's, Aspen, B/K AeroVue Touch).  Anybody have any insight to upgrading the STEC 60-2 to a 3100 in my situation.  Thanks for your input in advance. 

Edited June 10, 2018 by MICKEY

[Marauder]

So I have a 67 M20F with an STEC 60-2.  I have not decided on an EFIS yet (Dual G5's, Aspen, B/K AeroVue Touch).  Any buddy have any insight to upgrading the STEC 60-2 to a 3100 in my situation.  Thanks for your input in advance. 

I’m a 60-2 owner in an F as well. I have a dual Aspen and it is my understanding it will be integrated with the Aspens at some point if not initially.

My biggest concern is cost. STEC touts the 3100 is on par with the GFC 600. Since the 600 won’t probably certified for the mid body Mooneys, the comparison is the GFC 500 with the 3100. I don’t like the idea of keeping my analog STEC servos that are 20 years old this year for 2 or 3 more years of warranty when new digital ones would be available with the GFC 500.

I would love to see a side by side comparison between the 500 and 3100. I’m happy with the STEC 60-2 and the only real want is IAS climbs. Upset recovery and smoother performance are nice to haves but my 60-2 is pretty solid.


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[MICKEY]

28 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

I’m a 60-2 owner in an F as well. I have a dual Aspen and it is my understanding it will be integrated with the Aspens at some point if not initially.

My biggest concern is cost. STEC touts the 3100 is on par with the GFC 600. Since the 600 won’t probably certified for the mid body Mooneys, the comparison is the GFC 500 with the 3100. I don’t like the idea of keeping my analog STEC servos that are 20 years old this year for 2 or 3 more years of warranty when new digital ones would be available with the GFC 500.

I would love to see a side by side comparison between the 500 and 3100. I’m happy with the STEC 60-2 and the only real want is IAS climbs. Upset recovery and smoother performance are nice to haves but my 60-2 is pretty solid.


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Thanks for the input. I agree on much of what you say, but the real question is, "Is a 51 year old plane worth +8.5k ( dual G5's) or an +12k (Aspen) or more. And is it worth an upgrade to the STEC 3100. It looks really nice..

Also sent you a PM.  Thanks for the input. 

E

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, MICKEY said:

 the real question is, "Is a 51 year old plane worth +8.5k ( dual G5's) or an +12k (Aspen) or more. And is it worth an upgrade to the STEC 3100. It looks really nice..

Boy, is that the wrong question to ask @Marauder! His F is hardly over 40, not even Vintage Parking eligible. 

[MICKEY]

Fair Enough.  my biggest fear is an unnoticed fuel leak on the spar making it weak/unairworthy.  Thats where the thought process came from.  \ @Bob_Belville, I looked at your panel and noticed your upgrades.  How did you get the flush panel?  Where did you get it completed?

Edited June 10, 2018 by MICKEY

[Bob_Belville]

2 hours ago, MICKEY said:

@Bob_Belville, I looked at your panel and noticed your upgrades.  How did you get the flush panel?  Where did you get it completed?

Twin Lakes Avionics, Advance NC, Robbie Greer. It was part of the upgrades - GTN750, EDM 930, Aspen, GDL 88, xponder, audio panel, etc. 

http://www.greeraerospace.com/

[k8n]

I also asked my avionics shop to start the PO process.

[Barry LeBlanc]

On 6/8/2018 at 11:25 AM, Marauder said:

What is troubling me Jeff is why do they need the PO. So they can determine if they should spend the money on the STC? That would make sense if there was a deposit involved. Strange...

Hi Barry LeBlanc here. The reason why we do not ask for a deposit is why should we be in possession of your money when we need to obtain the STC first. The reason we ask for 15 interested owners to commit to the project is that the management sees a business case of investment. I truly believe that once we have the STC other Mooney owners will see the benefits. The ones that wait and do an upgrade will not have the Servo warranty...They will be the ones that will come up short. Approximately 5 weeks before the STC is issued we will ask one more time if you are interested. At that point is when your dealer will ask for a deposit. I hope that helps. Please call me any time: 940.327.0707

[Barry LeBlanc]

On 6/8/2018 at 12:33 PM, Cris said:

Well with Jeff-S and Marauder I make that just two short of the 15 PO’s required. Maybe Stec has those in hand. Last year I had the misfortune to place a deposit on an  proposed ADSB solution. That company went out of business and my deposit was lost. In my head I’ll not do that again and maybe companies like Genysis are simply trying to gauge interest while maintaining good customer relations intended to make one comfortable with their decision. Look how many questions seem to continue to percolate. A cancellable order required me to do some work ie get a quote from my shop and get them to enter the P.O. so not completely free considering my time and travel cost but certainly makes me comfortable. Good marketing. 

Thank you for your kind words. 

[Barry LeBlanc]

On 6/8/2018 at 1:55 PM, Bob_Belville said:

I might be willing to add my name to the list of conditional POs. Can someone give me a budget cost for going from a STEC50 with a STEC (manual) electric trim connected to Aspen. Nav is GTN 750 with KX155 w GS as #2. 

Can the 3100 come as a square panel box to swap out with the STEC50? 

Hi Bob,

The best way to get a firm quote is to visit a S-TEC Dealer. But the system 55 is almost the same as the 55X and if you have trim installed your equipment List cost are starting at $9995.00USD.If you have any questions please call me direct, 940.327.0707