Don Maxwell - The Mooney King! Thanks For Sharing Your Knowlege!

[mike20papa]

Maxwell is a MAPA guy.  He and Trey and that bunch are very loyal to the MAPA group.  His expertise and personal contact comes with a membership to MAPA.  This site is seen as undercutting that group.

[Andy95W]

On 10/27/2017 at 6:30 AM, M20Doc said:

It would be nice if Don would share some of his vast Mooney knowledge here with the rest of us, but I've yet to see one post offering advise or guidance to anyone.

Clarence

Straight from Don Maxwell's website:

http://donmaxwell.com/publications/

 

[Andy95W]

9 minutes ago, mike20papa said:

Maxwell is a MAPA guy.  He and Trey and that bunch are very loyal to the MAPA group.  His expertise and personal contact comes with a membership to MAPA.  This site is seen as undercutting that group.

Don's wife Jan has a presence here and will occasionally post, usually in conjunction with an event like Mooney Ambassadors or the MAPA homecoming.  But yes, they are much more visible on MAPA.

[fantom]

17 hours ago, steingar said:

......Don Maxwell is a treasure to the Mooney community, but he's not infallible.

Nor are we!

It won't be long, when people will wish they had DMax, at his worst, rather than the local shade tree guy. He spends so much time on the phone, helping guys without charging them, that his time supervising is impacted. He has IA help for that....and we all know how easy it is to find and hold onto good help.

The King, and a treasure...for sure! 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, mike20papa said:

Maxwell is a MAPA guy.  He and Trey and that bunch are very loyal to the MAPA group.  His expertise and personal contact comes with a membership to MAPA.  This site is seen as undercutting that group.

Some of us do both. But with the MAPA lists being emailed about, and responses posted in [random?] order depending on when someone read and replied to their email, this site is easier to read and navigate. And if anything, the lists have even greater thread drift . . . . So I've almost quit the MAPA lists [I occasionally read them in digest form], but still value my membership.

[DonMuncy]

6 hours ago, mike20papa said:

Maxwell is a MAPA guy.  He and Trey and that bunch are very loyal to the MAPA group.  His expertise and personal contact comes with a membership to MAPA.  This site is seen as undercutting that group.

I don't know where you get your information. Don, and I, and many others on Mooneyspace are "MAPA guys", and I have not heard anyone from MAPA saying they were being undercut. 

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, DonMuncy said:

I don't know where you get your information. Don, and I, and many others on Mooneyspace are "MAPA guys", and I have not heard anyone from MAPA saying they were being undercut. 

Yep, I agree. I've never heard that from anyone at MAPA and I'm a member there as well.

DMax did tell me once when I asked him, that he prefers the old school email list format of the MAPA list. He doesn't like the forum where he has to go read through various threads and topics. He gets email, and if interested, he just hits reply.

#oldDognewTrick

[Parker_Woodruff]

On 8/28/2018 at 8:59 AM, mike20papa said:

Maxwell is a MAPA guy.  He and Trey and that bunch are very loyal to the MAPA group.  His expertise and personal contact comes with a membership to MAPA.  This site is seen as undercutting that group.

If there is anyone that is just fine with everyone enjoying a piece of the Mooney pie (whether it be owner groups, forums, MSCs, or any number of things), it is Don Maxwell.  He was nothing but supportive when JD was setting up his acquired shop at SWTA and has been nothing but positive toward VMG, Mooney Summit, MAPA, MooneySpace, etc.

In fact, he's been critical about MAPA & stepped up where he sees MAPA has fallen short...

[cujet]

On 8/28/2018 at 9:57 AM, Shadrach said:

You're just itching to tell the rest of your story...!

Engine failure on takeoff due to hardware ingestion, after leaving the Maxwell shop for an alternator wire fault, followed by denial, the hiding of damaged parts and a refusal to take responsibility. 

My suggestions: go elsewhere, or go there and remain at your airplane 100% of the time, making sure each and every task is performed correctly, from start to finish. 

 

Note: I'm Director of Maintenance for a very high end corporate flight department. In my 25 years as DOM, not once has a shop directly or indirectly caused an engine failure. The quality of the work coming out of Maxwell's shop was, quite simply, abysmal. The above mentioned airplane's engine and engine accessories were incorrectly reassembled on many levels, after the incident. Leading to significant further headaches and resulting eventually in a spun main bearing and loss of oil pressure. 2 engine failures, caused by one Maxwell mechanic. You be the judge. 

[lwikle]

Damn, guess I’m lucky to be alive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mike_elliott]

What did Don do? take the engine apart and reassemble incorrectly to fix an alternator wire? 

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, cujet said:

Engine failure on takeoff due to hardware ingestion, after leaving the Maxwell shop for an alternator wire fault, followed by denial, the hiding of damaged parts and a refusal to take responsibility. 

My suggestions: go elsewhere, or go there and remain at your airplane 100% of the time, making sure each and every task is performed correctly, from start to finish. 

 

Note: I'm Director of Maintenance for a very high end corporate flight department. In my 25 years as DOM, not once has a shop directly or indirectly caused an engine failure. The quality of the work coming out of Maxwell's shop was, quite simply, abysmal. The above mentioned airplane's engine and engine accessories were incorrectly reassembled on many levels, after the incident. Leading to significant further headaches and resulting eventually in a spun main bearing and loss of oil pressure. 2 engine failures, caused by one Maxwell mechanic. You be the judge. 

I've heard the story first hand. I've never had my plane at Don's place and I am sure he has a different view of the events leading up to the failure.  It would be interesting to get that perspective as well.  I don't remember every detail of the story but it would be hard for an owner or DOM to except responsibility for a failure unless there was no question that it occurred on their shops watch.   That being said, I will say that I have seen loads of half-assed mx come out of "reputable" shops.  I've been charged high-end rates for mechanics that would be better suited to pulling parts in a junk yard.  

My brother had a generator failure en route N Myrtle beach (KCRE) last year.  The MX came from a "reputable" shop based at Myrtle Beach International (KMYR) and installed it on the ramp at KCRE. Looking at the aftermath suggests he was clearly not a Mooney guy.  Several months later I was tasked with removing the starter to replace a shear pin.  I found that the rear generator mount was missing a bolt, the remaining bolt had backed out a quarter inch and was boogered up from the vibration. Upon removal I found the front mount was tight against the pad but the hole in the tab where the generator mates to the mount was egged out and the tab bent. The front mount was so deformed that it needed to be replaced. The baffles had clearly been handled roughly and were bent in some areas.   This is just the latest of many lousy experiences I endured, so the suggestion that folks "remain at your airplane 100% of the time, making sure each and every task is performed correctly, from start to finish. ", pretty much stands for anywhere my plane is being worked on. My brother opted to spend time with his family (vacation) while the work was completed.  He launched the next day into moderate conditions with intermittent IFR on the way home.  No operational symptoms, but the generator likely began slowly disassembling itself on the return flight home. Could have gone much worse.  All this is not to say I don't trust any mechanics, I have relationships with a few folks with which I have complete confidence, but I don't get the warm fuzzies using a repair station being worked on by whomever might have an opening in their schedule that day.  

Edited September 4, 2018 by Shadrach

[Shadrach]

On 8/28/2018 at 10:19 AM, fantom said:

Nor are we!

It won't be long, when people will wish they had DMax, at his worst, rather than the local shade tree guy.

Shade tree guys are 100% accountable for their reputation and most of it is word of mouth.  I tend to feel a bit more comfy with a 20 year pick up truck IA than I do with "John Doe" working under a repair station certificate.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Shadrach

[Shadrach]

20 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

What did Don do? take the engine apart and reassemble incorrectly to fix an alternator wire? 

Hardware made it into the intake.

 

[mike_elliott]

16 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Hardware made it into the intake.

 

what mooney model? Its hard to for me to visualize the intake being disassembled to fix and alternator wire. 

 

[Shadrach]

56 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

what mooney model? Its hard to for me to visualize the intake being disassembled to fix and alternator wire. 

 

Lopresti cowled J model. I think there was more done then just looking in the engine bay and resecuring a wire. I wasn’t there and don’t know the scope of the work performed. Also, I’m am not rendering an opinion on the cause, just the cause of failure (hardware ingestion) as it is was explain to me.  Recalling the story as told to me, the  engine didn’t catastrophically fail, but was showing clear signs of a malfunction immediately after take off from KGGG. The pilot elected to make a precautionary landing in a field off the departure end of the runway (13 I think but not sure) rather than risk a complete power failure in the pattern while returning to land. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Shadrach

[mooneygirl]

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[cujet]

10 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

what mooney model? Its hard to for me to visualize the intake being disassembled to fix and alternator wire. 

 

Hardware will travel easily past the throttle plate, and tumble to the back of the intake plenum, where it gets sucked up by one of the aft intake tubes. Right about the time when the nose pitches up a little after takeoff. It then passes the intake valve and rattles around inside the cylinder. Banging up the piston, valves, spark plugs and so on. This leads to a dead cylinder rather rapidly. 

The problem was not just that a mistake was made. The problem was the cover up, the refusal to acknowledge a mistake and the subsequent poor treatment of the aircraft owner. 

 

Note #2: When I make a mistake, I've learned that's the time to spill the beans, so to speak. Tell everyone that matters, immediately. What I've found is that people will rush to help, for various personal reasons. Jet Aviation pushed our G550 back with the tail ladder not stowed. (my mistake for not stowing it when finished, and especially for not being there during towing) The ladder tore through 2 inches of the lower fuselage skin. Called the boss, the chief pilot, Gulfstream tech ops, the local Gulfstream service center and local Gulfstream mechanics in that order. I got help, lots of it. Fixed and done in short order, by people who have "been there, done that".  Yeah, it feels awful at the time. In the end, I'm thankful for the outpouring of help and a job well done. 

 

[cujet]

10 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Lopresti cowled J model. I think there was more done then just looking in the engine bay and re securing a wire.  

The failed wire at the alternator was the only problem. The shop failed to find the obvious. Instead opting to pull the baffling, ram air intake, alternator and surrounding parts. 

 

I caution aircraft owners to diligently oversee any maintenance. Your life may depend on it. Missing or extra parts will be clue number 1. 

[Shadrach]

5 minutes ago, cujet said:

The failed wire at the alternator was the only problem. The shop failed to find the obvious. Instead opting to pull the baffling, ram air intake, alternator and surrounding parts. 

 

I caution aircraft owners to diligently oversee any maintenance. Your life may depend on it. Missing or extra parts will be clue number 1. 

Was it a hardware from the ram air that was ingested?

[gsxrpilot]

I spent some time at Don's place today and heard his side of the story first hand. I won't go into the details here, but suffice it to say, I'm inclined to believe it. I've been very happy to place my trust in him and his shop from the beginning. The very first time I took a Mooney up as PIC, it had just rolled out of Don's shop and I've been a very happy customer ever since.

If I had to personally oversee all maintenance on my airplane, I'd sell it. I don't have the time or the expertise. So rather I'll build a good relationship with a shop I can trust. I've got that with two shops, Don's and JD's. 

 

[Danb]

I couldn’t agree more Paul, many of us are mechanically compromised and have no chance to determine all errors, also if I had to invest days of time overseeing or glaring at someone working on my plane I’d rather invest my time and effort to become an A&P and do it myself. Consider all our jobs it’d be great if our clients stared at us doing our work, crazy..

[MyNameIsNobody]

I personally despise character defamation on a website.  We have the rule of law and courts in the United States.  Cujet this is NOT the venue to “voice your concerns”.  It strikes me as lowbrow and beneath character of those I would care to spend time with.  I am glad Don has taken the high road.  

On another note: I used to be a very loyal MAPA guy.  The information for a new owner was VERY valuable.  I did not care for the online section.  Their escalations made me, YES ME, look tame.  The magazine became stale for me as I gained knowledge and experience so I discontinued participation.  For a new owner those articles are G.O.L.D.  This was “pre” Mooneyspace...

[MyNameIsNobody]

I have been 100% satisfied with the quality of work provided on my E from MXO.  Brian O and his “associates” have brought my plane back from hanger queen status over 15+ years of ownership.  A Mooney Service Center is definitely NOT the only way to go on receiving quality work on your Mooney.  Find someone that is well regarded, competent and approachable.  Marry them...I mean trust them with your and your loved ones lives...I mean pay them for their work...BE actively involved in decision making.  Trust but verify.  I always stay in the pattern for a couple circuits after the plane has been de-cowled.  Fly safe.

[Shadrach]

10 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I spent some time at Don's place today and heard his side of the story first hand. I won't go into the details here, but suffice it to say, I'm inclined to believe it. I've been very happy to place my trust in him and his shop from the beginning. The very first time I took a Mooney up as PIC, it had just rolled out of Don's shop and I've been a very happy customer ever since.

If I had to personally oversee all maintenance on my airplane, I'd sell it. I don't have the time or the expertise. So rather I'll build a good relationship with a shop I can trust. I've got that with two shops, Don's and JD's. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Danb said:

I couldn’t agree more Paul, many of us are mechanically compromised and have no chance to determine all errors, also if I had to invest days of time overseeing or glaring at someone working on my plane I’d rather invest my time and effort to become an A&P and do it myself. Consider all our jobs it’d be great if our clients stared at us doing our work, crazy..

No one should need to personally oversee all mx on their aircraft. However, it is important that an owner be informed if they are flying and maintaining anything over 20 years old. Systems will need to be renewed. It behooves any owner to be familiar with the working of their aircraft, especially its eccentricities.  Selling an owner the warm fuzzies is a skill in and of itself.  If an an owner has little to no expertise, they have little to no way of determining the quality of the maintenance they are receiving.  Trust but verify. My trusted IA has a key to my hangar. I don't need to be there.  Stuck away from home with an unknown?... I am sticking close.

Mx induced failures are real.  Several crashes have occurred because control surfaces were reconnected in reverse.  The mechanic's mistake was contributory to the incident, but there are pilots that have actually departed (no pun intended) knowing (or perhaps ignorant) that the control surfaces were disconnected and reconnected during maintenance, yet failed  to verify proper continuity. The fault is ultimately on the pilot.  Everyone makes mistakes...EVERYONE.  Either you serve as a potential break in the accident chain or you don't.  As pilots we can't know, see and do everything, but we can strive to contribute more to the safety of flight. Money makes airplanes fly, but it does not keep them from crashing.  Ignorance is bliss until there is a mx failure...then ignorance is a bad day.

91.7 (b) makes it pretty clear although I think the wording may have been softened since I got my ticket.

Sec. 91.7 — Civil aircraft airworthiness.

(b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.