M20TN/U/V Manufacturing - Modern or Old Processes & Tools?

[Saul Goodman]

Perhaps these lovely videos have been shared before, however my question is, looking at these videos can one judge if modern manufacturing methods & processes are being employed like Lean or Lean Six SIgma, etc. Plus, the tooling equipment seems old. These videos were shot in 2015 (not by me, I found them on YouTube).

I am sure the factory workers are experienced, extremely competent and second to none. 

I am not a manufacturing expert, so this is more of an ask from the members of this forum. Thank you.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Saul Goodman

[KSMooniac]

Welcome. Why do you ask?

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[Saul Goodman]

Just curious. 

[Cruiser]

While the principles apply and it is possible to eliminate waste and inefficiencies almost anywhere, if you are only building a dozen units a year it gets really, really hard to have a major impact.

[StinkBug]

With the very small quantities being produced it's unlikely that a lot of the modern mass production techniques would be of much benefit, and might actually be more costly. It's not like they are pumping them out by the dozens anymore. 

[Yetti]

Are you assuming labor is the most expensive part of the operation?   If so that is why they are building them in China now.

[Yetti]

There is much to be said that they have to be taken apart by hand every year and then put back together.   Think how car manufacturing would change if there was annual inspections

[Hank]

You do realize that Lean Manufacturing is just inventory reduction, and Six Sigma is quality control, right? Neither are "manufacturing methods," they are just methods to reduce costs and minimize defects reaching customers by preventing them and catching them internally?

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

Are you assuming labor is the most expensive part of the operation?   If so that is why they are building them in China now.

I'm pretty sure 100% of the Acclaims and Ovations are still built in Kerrville, TX.

[KSMooniac]

The factory looks awfully similar to other low volume aircraft manufacturing plants, at least ones that use aluminum and steel.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Hey Saul, Welcome aboard!

Parts of my memory are working really well tonight.  See if any of this relates to your question...

1) Nothing beats the quality of the Mooney finished product.

2) They are all built the same identical way in an approved manufacturing process(fully documented, signatures/initials on every step, from the same approved, identical parts, with part numbers and serial numbers on everything full traceability back to the source of the aluminum...

3) This technique is called 100% inspection, as opposed to statistical process control (SPC).

4) Using SPC, there is statistically going to be an acceptable level of Outliers...

5) Nobody is going to risk buying or flying the outlier(s).

6) designing an SPC process for building planes would require a statistically relevant family size of planes.

7) If building one plane a week the entire production run would be 52.  Really not a large enough family of planes to hire a good statistician for...

8) SPC is great for continuous processes with few variables.

9) 100% inspection is for short runs of high quality/value products.

10) Maybe you were more interested in automated manufacturing where vehicles proceed down a production line?

11) 52 planes a year, doesn't buy a lot of machines either...

12) As old as my plane is, its quality has been outstanding from its first days through yesterday...

13) The final inspections of each Mooney plane are are test flights. The Airworthiness signature goes in the log book when the tests are done.  Look in the early pages of the maintenance logs to see who signed that Spot.  The guy who flew my 1965 Mooney was the same guy who sold me a copy of the AFM and a POH for my 1965 M20C in Y2k. That guy's name was Mr. Bill Wheat, engineer, designer, builder, customer service rep, friendly voice on the phone, after market parts builder, Good Guy

14) There are subcomponents that are provided by other suppliers.  Same QC techniques but may suffer design or execution challenges. Radio systems, nav systems and things like that... An extended warranty is available for those conditions...

15) Note: Bill Wheat is no longer with, but his spirit clearly lives on in every Mooney with his signature in the log book...

Go Mooney!

Hey, how did I do?

PP thoughts only, I have never built a plane before... I assisted taking one apart to see how it was built about ten times. Every year for a decade. Everything stayed the same, small things wore out, another year would go by...

Best regard,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

6 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Perhaps these lovely videos have been shared before, however my question is, looking at these videos can one judge if modern manufacturing methods & processes are being employed like Lean or Lean Six SIgma, etc. Plus, the tooling equipment seems old. These videos were shot in 2015 (not by me, I found them on YouTube).

I am sure the factory workers are experienced, extremely competent and second to none. 

I am not a manufacturing expert, so this is more of an ask from the members of this forum. Thank you.

 

 

hummm.....perhaps Gustavo has a meth lab under that big press.....

[carusoam]

I hear if you put carbon in that press... August is a good time to make diamonds... Heat + Pressure + Carbon = Diamond...

-a-

[Yetti]

10 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm pretty sure 100% of the Acclaims and Ovations are still built in Kerrville, TX.

I know...   Not sure how you could automate the welding of the cromoly tube frame.    The "automation" I see in the video is the jigs that are laying around for all the different pieces and parts.  Those right there took lots of time to create and is where the intellectual property.    I wonder if the factory would let people come build their own plane?

[Saul Goodman]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

Hey Saul, Welcome aboard!

Parts of my memory are working really well tonight.  See if any of this relates to your question...

1) Nothing beats the quality of the Mooney finished product.

2) They are all built the same identical way in an approved manufacturing process(fully documented, signatures/initials on every step, from the same approved, identical parts, with part numbers and serial numbers on everything full traceability back to the source of the aluminum...

3) This technique is called 100% inspection, as opposed to statistical process control (SPC).

4) Using SPC, there is statistically going to be an acceptable level of Outliers...

5) Nobody is going to risk buying or flying flying the outlier.

6) designing an SPC process of building planes would require a statistically relevant family size of planes.

7) If building one plane a week the entire production run would be 52.  Really not a large enough family of planes to hire a good statistician for...

8) SPC is great for continuous processes with few variables.

9) 100% inspection is for short runs of high quality/value products.

10) Maybe you were more interest in automated manufacturing where vehicles proceed down a production line?

11) 52 planes a year, doesn't buy a lot of machines either...

12) As old as my plane is, its quality has been outstanding from its first days through yesterday...

13) The final inspections of each Mooney plane are are test flights. The Airworthiness signature goes in the log book when the tests are done.  Look in the early pages of the maintenance logs to see who signed that Spot.  The guy who flew my 1965 Mooney was the same guy who sold me a copy of the AFM and a POH for my 1965 M20C in Y2k. That guy's name was Mr. Bill Wheat, engineer, designer, builder, customer service rep, friendly voice on the phone, after market parts builder, Good Guy

14) There are subcomponents that are provided by other suppliers.  Same QC techniques but may suffer design or execution challenges. Radio systems, nav systems and things like that... An extended warranty is available for those conditions...

15) Note: Bill Wheat is no longer with, but his spirit clearly lives on in every Mooney with his signature in the log book...

Go Mooney!

Hey, how did I do?

PP thoughts only, I have never built a plane before... I assisted taking one apart to see how it was built about ten times. Every year for a decade. Everything stayed the same, small things wore out, another year would go by...

Best regard,

-a-

Thank you!

[Saul Goodman]

9 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

hummm.....perhaps Gustavo has a meth lab under that big press.....

haha perhaps

[MooneyMitch]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Hey Saul, Welcome aboard!

Parts of my memory are working really well tonight.  See if any of this relates to your question...

1) Nothing beats the quality of the Mooney finished product.

2) They are all built the same identical way in an approved manufacturing process(fully documented, signatures/initials on every step, from the same approved, identical parts, with part numbers and serial numbers on everything full traceability back to the source of the aluminum...

3) This technique is called 100% inspection, as opposed to statistical process control (SPC).

4) Using SPC, there is statistically going to be an acceptable level of Outliers...

5) Nobody is going to risk buying or flying flying the outlier.

6) designing an SPC process of building planes would require a statistically relevant family size of planes.

7) If building one plane a week the entire production run would be 52.  Really not a large enough family of planes to hire a good statistician for...

8) SPC is great for continuous processes with few variables.

9) 100% inspection is for short runs of high quality/value products.

10) Maybe you were more interest in automated manufacturing where vehicles proceed down a production line?

11) 52 planes a year, doesn't buy a lot of machines either...

12) As old as my plane is, its quality has been outstanding from its first days through yesterday...

13) The final inspections of each Mooney plane are are test flights. The Airworthiness signature goes in the log book when the tests are done.  Look in the early pages of the maintenance logs to see who signed that Spot.  The guy who flew my 1965 Mooney was the same guy who sold me a copy of the AFM and a POH for my 1965 M20C in Y2k. That guy's name was Mr. Bill Wheat, engineer, designer, builder, customer service rep, friendly voice on the phone, after market parts builder, Good Guy

14) There are subcomponents that are provided by other suppliers.  Same QC techniques but may suffer design or execution challenges. Radio systems, nav systems and things like that... An extended warranty is available for those conditions...

15) Note: Bill Wheat is no longer with, but his spirit clearly lives on in every Mooney with his signature in the log book...

Go Mooney!

Hey, how did I do?

PP thoughts only, I have never built a plane before... I assisted taking one apart to see how it was built about ten times. Every year for a decade. Everything stayed the same, small things wore out, another year would go by...

Best regard,

-a-

Ya done real good there, partner!!!

[MooneyMitch]

Thank you Saul for posting these videos.  They bring back such great memories!

Throughout the videos, you will see and hear, 50 plus years dedicated passionate Mooney employee Stanley Feller, affectionately known as "Cowboy".   

It's appears these factory videos were recorded during a tour lead by none other than "Cowboy" himself.  Stanley was the Hammer House supervisor for many, many years.

For those of you unaware, Stanley is the person responsible for the idea of lowering the giant presses, located in the Hammer House, into their footings using huge blocks of ice.   The ice blocks were placed into the footing depths one night.  The giant presses were moved onto the blocks of ice and left to sit overnight.  The following morning, the ice had melted and with the use of overhead beams and tackle, the presses found themselves lowered into the footings.......brilliant young Stanley!

It's heart warming to see Stanley still leading tours of the place he mostly dedicated his working life to.

If you have, have had, or will have a Mooney airplane, rest assured you have a solid airframe built by people of dedication, craftsmanship and the passion for it all!!!
 

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I toured the factory back in 2004, when it was still in full swing before the shutdown. Mooneys back then were built by hand, and I don't suspect a whole lot has changed. I do know this: I've flown a lot of GA aircraft over the last 32 years, and none were built better than my Acclaim.

[kevinw]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

13) The final inspections of each Mooney plane are are test flights. The Airworthiness signature goes in the log book when the tests are done.  Look in the early pages of the maintenance logs to see who signed that Spot.  The guy who flew my 1965 Mooney was the same guy who sold me a copy of the AFM and a POH for my 1965 M20C in Y2k. That guy's name was Mr. Bill Wheat, engineer, designer, builder, customer service rep, friendly voice on the phone, after market parts builder, Good Guy

Here's mine. Does anyone recognize the signature?

 

N1151V Airframe Logbooks.pdf