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Any PIREPS for ElectroAir electronic ignition

Lee A.

By Lee A.
in General Mooney Talk

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Neal Francis Newbie

Neal Francis

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, gsengle said:

 


Really?

https://www.google.com/search?q=aircraft+electronic+ignition&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us


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Those are all for experimental aircraft and do not have an FAA STC.  As far as I know Electroair is the only one approved for factory built aircraft. 

So, yes, really. 

I thought maybe somebody else got FAA approval that I didn't know about.

Edited by Neal Francis
aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted

surefly needs ships power right? (vs e-mags that has a built in mini alternator).  Does anyone know how complicated is the surefly install setup?

ArtVandelay Grand Master

ArtVandelay

Posted
Posted
surefly needs ships power right? (vs e-mags that has a built in mini alternator).  Does anyone know how complicated is the surefly install setup?

They’re summarized installation instructions on their website seem pretty easy (6 steps) , but I would probably add a B&C backup alternator.

Neal Francis Newbie

Neal Francis

Posted
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

They are half certified now (engine STC), now they need to certify individual aircraft (airframe STC).

Only for normally aspirated engines.  If there's an "I" or a "T" that begins your engine call out, not yet.  Most Mooney's I'm familiar with have injected engines.  The FAA is also requiring CHT monitoring equipment.  Read the FAA document on their website.  It's all there.  

 

Edited by Neal Francis
  • Like 2
Steve W Proficient

Steve W

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, Neal Francis said:

They've been saying that for a year now.

 

I think ElectroAir is now at 2-3 years for those of us with Dual Mags...

Neal Francis Newbie

Neal Francis

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Steve W said:

I think ElectroAir is now at 2-3 years for those of us with Dual Mags...

Nobody's got an answer for that nightmare yet.  Since they have standard mags covered, I gotta believe that dual mag system must be a bit tougher nut to crack.  

Edited by Neal Francis
carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted

Welcome aboard Neal.

whats the hubbub about?

We have been waiting for Godot for a decade already...

Sure... the experimental world has had this for a long time... especially on their V8 LS(s)....

Lycoming has had electronic ignitions on their engines at trade shows like KOSH... something to drool about...

Requiring things like...

  • ship’s power...
  • engine monitor...

Want some back-ups?

  • have you seen all of the glass instruments and some mechanical ones that have their own batteries?
  • have you seen all of the Mooneys that have a second battery wired in?
  • Do you carry a spare battery in your car, because you can... go to Costco, the spare battery comes with a light, air pump, AC invertor, and a USB power socket... easily will get you safely on the ground when your generator gives up the ghost and kills your battery at the same time...
  • many Mooneys have gone all electric... two batteries, and two alternators, and smaller batteries supporting everything else...

How hard are they to come by?

The electronic ignition being offered by these newer magnetos isn’t that spectacular...

In other words, we aren’t going to get very much for the huge investment that is going to be required...

Or are you seeing something that I am not?

As far as engines with turbos on them...

We all have a red box we want to stay away from... with an NA engine the box is relatively small and decreases with altitude...

People that want to fly turbo engines know this pretty well and have to put up with a lot of fine detail to do this at altitudes like the FLs...

Please share what you are hoping to get from the electronic magnetos...

I have fallen into the wait in see mode of all the hot technology... it takes decades to deliver... and another decade to improve...

The existing mags aren’t that bad... are they?

Best regards,

-a-

Neal Francis Newbie

Neal Francis

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, carusoam said:

 

Please share what you are hoping to get from the electronic magnetos...

I have fallen into the wait in see mode of all the hot technology... it takes decades to deliver... and another decade to improve...

The existing mags aren’t that bad... are they?

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks for the welcome!

I believe the testimonials on this thread from Mooney owners speak for themselves.  Greater fuel economy, more power, smoother operation, and easier starts.  Climb rates are significantly improved.  Add to that, 2000 hours of operation between replacement and the cost justification is there.  How much is a traditional magneto overhaul costing every 500 hours? 

If you don't fly much, I can see the reluctance to spend money on newer technology, but much of this stuff has been around for years now.  I guess it depends on your definition of "new technology".  

Edited by Neal Francis
  • Like 1
carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted

My challenge...  i’m Using a recently OH’d IO550...

1) The testimonials are nice, but too few to get to the 310hp IO550...

2) greater fuel economy would be nice, I would need hard numbers of FF for my IO550 in climb and cruise... connected to the IAS numbers... the economy goes out the window when using the blue box EGT ROP method of cooling CHTs in the climb...

3) Starting the IO550 is pretty easy. Getting easier?  Hard to put a dollar value on it...

4) cruising LOP for hours at 12k’ is where this can get interesting, my engine timing is set for 22° BTDC... can I get an improvement on this? (More show me the data kind of challenge, can I get 30°BTDC or more?)

5) Smoother running?  The IO550 can go 90°F LOP @5k’, with a gami spread near 0... how are we going to define smoother?

6) 500hr maintenance on the mags is a bit of an annoyance when it comes up... the cost is tiny compared to the hangar fees every year...

7) climb rate improvement? I have a 2kfpm initial climb rate... how much better can it get?

7.1) FF around 28gph has some room for improvement?

7.2) I climb for 10 minutes, so the horrible FF, doesn’t last that long...

8) my definitions of new technology....

  • Anything that didn’t come on my engine from the factory... (not very creative or leading edge)

generally looking forward to things like...

  • Air supply: tuned intakes.... (got that...) Lyc IO540s could use this...
  • Fuel supply: fuel injectors... (currently continuously flowing, could be better like individually controlled direct fuel injectors...?)
  • Spark supply: Ignition curves that are tuned to my flight profiles... start, taxi, T/O, climb, cruise, descent...?
  • Automated mixture control, to each cylinder...?

9) my expectations are pretty low...

  • Maintain the easy starting,  possible improvement (for the engine and accessories) by adjusting timing to 0°BTDC for start... 
  • Maintain taxi, T/O, climb...
  • Really adjust the timing for cruise... demonstrate that this actually works as expected for the IO550...
  • This all pays for itself in improved nmpg and maintenance/down time costs... (more show me the numbers kind of response)
  • no surprises allowed.... melted pistons (uncontrolled advanced timing), or failed ignition systems can be quite serious...
  • Regular mags aren’t that great. Plenty of room for improvement...
  • Regular mags aren’t that terrible. Plenty of room for improvement...

10) Looks like the time to consider these...

  • Each 500hr interval of the mags.
  • any time a mag gets removed for service.

Lets continue to collect and share hard data...:)

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

jetdriven Grand Master

jetdriven

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2017 at 1:28 PM, mccdeuce said:

Don't necessarily agree with you here - maybe not two units for my current configuration of my Mooney but if configured and built right I would be just fine without a MAG.  Yes it requires outside power but my alternator is very reliable and if it dies I have the battery backup.  (or if I went with a G5 I could have a backup alternator instead of vacuum pump) 

How many times did people fly with Vacuum powered attitude gyros in the clouds?  single point of failure.  Go all electric and you have a battery backup to your Gyro.  For me no different.  

That said I understand peoples hesitation and respect it as their choice.  

 

@KSMooniac @xcrmckenna  ElectroAir has not been able to get the STC for Dual mag ops.  For the Experimental version they have figured it out but as I understood it the certified side is not straightforward through the FAA and not likely. 

I used to fly a Liberty XL light sport plane. It had dual electric ignition and dual FADEC which depends on 28vdc with a battery back up. It had a master caution and master warning system and it had a two battery system.  If the alternator failed, it would be on ships battery down to a certain voltage, then switch over to the back up battery, run it down to a certain voltage then tie them together and at that point you’re  not guaranteed to have a functioning engine after that. But the manual clearly stated this, in case of alternator failure you have 30 minutes of demonstrated time to get it on the ground. This also assumes a battery capacity test every year.  If the master caution illuminated you continue your flight carefully but if the master warning illuminated the manual said to get the aircraft on the ground as soon as possible and it does not have to be limited to an airport. The engine could fail at any minute. It’s the only  plane I had stumble and misfire a bit after shutting down briefly because I pulled the alternator circuit breaker simulating an alternator failure. Anyways be careful with that stuff. 

Edited by jetdriven
  • Like 1
Ragsf15e Grand Master

Ragsf15e

Posted
Posted
On 12/20/2018 at 3:55 PM, Neal Francis said:

Only for normally aspirated engines.  If there's an "I" or a "T" that begins your engine call out, not yet.  Most Mooney's I'm familiar with have injected engines.  The FAA is also requiring CHT monitoring equipment.  Read the FAA document on their website.  It's all there.  

 

Just to be clear, the Surefly is built for NA (Normally Aspirated) engines.  Both carbureted and injected engines can be NA.  Turbo engines are not.  Surefly is just fine on IO-360s... when it’s finally approved.

Pmaxwell Explorer

Pmaxwell

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Just to be clear, the Surefly is built for NA (Normally Aspirated) engines.  Both carbureted and injected engines can be NA.  Turbo engines are not.  Surefly is just fine on IO-360s... when it’s finally approved.

Surefly is also available for turbocharged engines in the fixed timing mode. The aml covers the engines it has been approved for and the stc tells requirements for advanced timing mode installs. There are dip switches on the timing housing for the various configurations.

  • Like 1
Ragsf15e Grand Master

Ragsf15e

Posted
Posted

Awesome, thanks!  Good to know it’s an option for turbo as well.  At least it should have less maintenance than traditional mags for them.

  • 2 years later...
NotarPilot Veteran

NotarPilot

Posted
Posted
On 7/6/2017 at 7:38 AM, INA201 said:

Do they work with the dual mag IO-360?  What's the approximate installed cost? Thanks

 

On 7/7/2017 at 9:20 PM, xcrmckenna said:

I sent them an email the other day, but haven't heard back from them. Does anyone know if they have an stc for the A3B6D?


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Not sure if this has been covered but we finally have a STC’d solution for dual, that’s right DUAL, electronic ignition for the dual mag system. This is great news and I’m definitely considering it after new Dynon panel and new paint later this year.

THE product that pertains to us dual mag guys is the EIS-42000DM

http://electroair.net/4cylignitionKit.html

  • Like 1
toto Grand Master

toto

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, NotarPilot said:

 

Not sure if this has been covered but we finally have a STC’d solution for dual, that’s right DUAL, electronic ignition for the dual mag system. This is great news and I’m definitely considering it after new Dynon panel and new paint later this year.

THE product that pertains to us dual mag guys is the EIS-42000DM

http://electroair.net/4cylignitionKit.html

We were talking about this in another thread recently, and it sounded like the STC language is incorrect. The STC has not yet been approved, and ETA is unknown. 
 

 

  • Like 1
carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted

There is a pirep for the electro Aire on an Ovation…. That got removed shortly after it was installed….

A search should find it…

Best regards,

-a-

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