Low Battery Two in Ovation

[lmtinley]

Hi all,

Just bought an 96 Ovation, have only flown it about 4 flights so far and loving it. I'm having a problem with this dual battery setup though, and am unfamiliar with it. Battery 2 keeps reading low volts (between 18 and 8) so I've just been running it off battery 1. I want to charge it, but don't really want to have to open up the battery access doors as I really don't know very well what I'm doing. I understand that the external charging port is wired directly to battery 1, does that mean that it will trickle-charge over to battery 2 like it does in flight if I plug it up there? Excited to become a part of the Mooney community.

[gsengle]

It should charge in flight. You probably have a bad battery, you should get it tested and possibly replaced... I'm serial #89, you?


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[Jerry 5TJ]

If the 24 volt battery is reading 8 volts it is not going to be trickle charged back to health by a few flights. 

Last year I tried just that with a depleted but otherwise good battery in my Ovation (it was reading just about 21 volts no load). I ended up hooking the AC powered smart charger across the battery itself for a few hours.  

The POH calls for alternating batteries each flight to keep both charged.  

To answer your question about charging #2 battery via the external power port:  The M20R Service manual section 24 says only battery 1 can be charged directly via that port.

Perhaps you can find someone willing to show you how to remove the L side access panel and locate the two batteries.  

 

[Cruiser]

Look at Service Bulletin M20-275 it adds fuses to the battery circuits. 

The system is suppose to trickle charge the battery that is not selected on the Main Circuit Breaker panel. There are diodes connected between the two batteries that can be shorted and drain the charge from the battery.

Check the diodes for shorts, they are mounted at the rear of the #1 battery shelf.

I have a good #2 Concorde Platinum Series battery for sale if yours needs replaced.

 

TomK

[Greg_D]

Tom, what are the specifics on the battery you have for sale and how much are you asking for it?

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard IMT!

The follow-up question is always... is that a Gill Battery? How old is it?

if it is and its two years old...

The solution is always... there is a Concorde battery for that.

The next follow-up question becomes a discussion of a specific battery minder for the battery you install.  

Best regards,

-a-

[lmtinley]

Thanks for the help! I had a capacity test done on it and it failed. I have a battery minder and was going to see if it could descale it a bit and maybe heal it a bit. (If that's how it works) I know it probably won't help, but I figure why not. It is a concorde to those who were wondering. When I do replace it, I'm going to try and do it myself to save some money, any tips on replacing it? 

[lmtinley]

On 5/19/2017 at 6:57 PM, gsengle said:

It should charge in flight. You probably have a bad battery, you should get it tested and possibly replaced... I'm serial #89, you?


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Serial Number 92!

[Guest]

Just now, lmtinley said:

Thanks for the help! I had a capacity test done on it and it failed. I have a battery minder and was going to see if it could descale it a bit and maybe heal it a bit. (If that's how it works) I know it probably won't help, but I figure why not. It is a concorde to those who were wondering. When I do replace it, I'm going to try and do it myself to save some money, any tips on replacing it? 

Use lots of caution, a fully charged battery of either brand stores a lot of power.  New Concord batteries have nice protective covers on the cable terminals, leave them in place while you install the battery.

To remove the battery you'll have to remove the the negative or ground cable first, then remove the positive cable, then remove the tie down bar. Lift it out carefully and set it aside.

Lift the new battery into place and secure with the tie down bar, use caution not to short the terminals with anything metallic, leaving the covers in place helps assure this.  Connect the positive cable first torquing the bolt,  install the cable boot over the terminal if it has one, if not buy an MS25171-3S boot,  install the negative cable and torque the bolt.

Make a log entry noting the part number and serial number.

Clarence 

 

[lmtinley]

Thanks a lot. Also I would like to correct myself in that battery one in this Ovation is a Concorde and the one that crapped out on me is a Gill, so I can't use my battery minder on it since mine is for Concordes only.  Would y'all recommend replacing it with an rg-24 11m or rg-24 15? Battery one is an 11m.

Edited June 11, 2017 by lmtinley

[lmtinley]

13 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Use lots of caution, a fully charged battery of either brand stores a lot of power.  New Concord batteries have nice protective covers on the cable terminals, leave them in place while you install the battery.

To remove the battery you'll have to remove the the negative or ground cable first, then remove the positive cable, then remove the tie down bar. Lift it out carefully and set it aside.

Lift the new battery into place and secure with the tie down bar, use caution not to short the terminals with anything metallic, leaving the covers in place helps assure this.  Connect the positive cable first torquing the bolt,  install the cable boot over the terminal if it has one, if not buy an MS25171-3S boot,  install the negative cable and torque the bolt.

Make a log entry noting the part number and serial number.

Clarence 

 

Do I need to get a capacity test or anything on the battery before I put it in? Also, since I'm switching brands (and I assume weights), do I need to do any weird weight and balance change in the logbook as well?

Edited June 11, 2017 by lmtinley

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, lmtinley said:

Thanks a lot. Also I would like to correct myself in that battery one in this Ovation is a Concorde and the one that crapped out on me is a Gill, so I can't use my battery minder on it since mine is for Concordes only.  Would y'all recommend replacing it with an rg-24 11m or rg-24 15? Battery one is an 11m.

Go with the -15. The price difference isn't much and you get more capacity

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, lmtinley said:

Do I need to get a capacity test or anything on the battery before I put it in? Also, since I'm switching brands (and I assume weights), do I need to do any weird weight and balance change in the logbook as well?

The weights are the same. The old gills showed weight without the acid of around 27 pounds if I remember correctly. Then you add the acid and you're up to 29 pounds. The Concorde is sealed and it's 29 pounds.

[carusoam]

Expect the two different capacity Concordes to have different weights... a few pounds I believe...

Thanks to Clarence for pointing out the details especially the stored power inside the battery.  Don't let it out accidently...

the extra few pounds are good to have back there when balancing about a Topprop or other weighty things on the nose.

The chance of reviving a Gill battery is slim to none.  

The BatteryMinder is specific to each battery, but not very different.

I have a Gill battery charger from Gill. No better results...

I've gone all Concorde this year....

Best regards,

-a-

[StevenL757]

3 hours ago, lmtinley said:

Thanks a lot. Also I would like to correct myself in that battery one in this Ovation is a Concorde and the one that crapped out on me is a Gill, so I can't use my battery minder on it since mine is for Concordes only.  Would y'all recommend replacing it with an rg-24 11m or rg-24 15? Battery one is an 11m.

Follow the removal and install procedure Clarence referenced above, and get an RG24-15M Concorde.  Spend the extra few dollars...as Lance mentioned...very well worth it.  PM me if I can be of any assistance.

Steve

[LANCECASPER]

15 hours ago, carusoam said:

Expect the two different capacity Concordes to have different weights... a few pounds I believe...

 

The -15M is called for in the Parts book for an M20R (or a Gill G243). They are interchangeable in size and weight, but definitely not quality and longevity.

[carusoam]

Lance,

the reference I have (O1 POH) actually lists the Concorde as the first choice, and Gill as an alternative.  I was a bit surprised because I got my O with a pair of Gills in it already.  One was a real welcoming sign as it got swapped out by AAA prior to going for a test flight....

I look forward to the Pireps on the new style Gill.  I have plenty of years before having to jump in again with Battery questions...

I am up to about 7 years of O ownership with about 7 Gill batteries swapped out.  Six months of Concordes, it was just time for a change.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited June 12, 2017 by carusoam

[LANCECASPER]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Lance,

the reference I have (O1 POH) actually lists the Concorde as the first choice, and Gill as an alternative.  I was a bit surprised because I got my O with a pair of Gills in it already.  One was a real welcoming sign as it got swapped out by AAA prior to going for a test flight....

I look forward to the Pireps on the new style Gill.  I have plenty of years before having to jump in again with Battery questions...

I am up to about 7 years of O ownership with about 7 Gill batteries swapped out.  Six months of Concordes, it was just time for a change.

Best regards,

-a-

I agree completely on the switch to Concorde. I stopped counting the number of Gill batteries that I bought. Batteryminders help and of course flying a lot helps and moderate climate helps, but I'm not sure I ever got more than 2.5 years out of a Gill battery.

[gsengle]

I agree completely on the switch to Concorde. I stopped counting the number of Gill batteries that I bought. Batteryminders help and of course flying a lot helps and moderate climate helps, but I'm not sure I ever got more than 2.5 years out of a Gill battery.

My concordes in the Ovation are going 6 - 7 years


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[lmtinley]

Hi all, just wanted to give an update on the Ovation. Luckily for me, my mechanic happened to be changing the oil when I showed up to install the battery. It went in relatively easily, but the oxygen tank being directly over battery 2 did pose a slight difficulty. After some wiggling (and cursing), we were able to get the battery in without removing the tank. If anyone's curious, the best way to do it is have one person stick their arms all the way through the left panel and help hold/maneuver the battery while another works on it from the right side. Difficult, but works. Thanks everyone for the help.

[carusoam]

IMT,

What battery did you go with?

Best regards,

-a-

[mooneyflyer]

Dumb question, I also have 2 batteries on my Eagle.  I have been told that if you are running on Battery #1, that Battery #2 gets only a small trickle charge.  Meaning that only the Battery selected is getting a full charge.  True or OWT?

[carusoam]

Probably both...

It is a true statement but how many amps go to the other battery and how well is it cared for? 

It may be bad form to leave a dead battery in the system because there doesn't seem to be a lot of control over what is going that way.  There are fuses in there as well if one battery were to short. The fuse should keep from killing the other battery.

Somebody posted the diagram of the electron flow control bridge. A few diodes and a couple of fuses.  It was not like an electronic BatteryMinder directing some electricity to go each way.  Not that BatteryMinder would do that either...

A good part of the driving force of electron flow is going to be how low is the battery that is getting charged.  A very low battery may draw enough electricity to blow a fuse.

See if you can find the electric schematic that shows how the two batteries are wired together.  Somebody posted it a month or two ago(?)

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-