Flight school trying to talk me out of a Mooney.

[rbridges]

On 4/10/2017 at 11:55 AM, neonbjb said:

 For example, my pitch trim indicator cable is frozen up. It's basically a bike cable with a custom screwed end fitting. I called my local MSC for a replacement quote and they gave me 6 months and over $1000. Are you kidding me? Another example is the prop cable - $800 for a Mooney where you can buy the Piper/Cessna variant for $250. 

 

I called Don Maxwell, and he shipped a brand new mooney cable to my doorstep for $200 ish.

[Mooneymite]

On 4/9/2017 at 9:31 PM, Guitarmaster said:

Possibly if you are in BFE Kentucky or somewhere.

Sorry, Matt.  BFE is not in Ky.  It's in Texas....near Lubbock.  Ask me how I know....

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBFE

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

Sorry, Matt.  BFE is not in Ky.  It's in Texas....near Lubbock.  Ask me how I know....

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBFE

Irrespective of the identifier, I stopped in Dell City Texas for fuel and food once. It's the real BFE.

Wow, I just did a web search. Someone made a movie "Down and out in west Texas" about the place. The airport was in surprisingly good condition. I wish I could say that about the rest of the town. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by N201MKTurbo

[Brian_tii]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 11:55 AM, neonbjb said:

The first few posts on this thread insulting the poor lady for offering advice are pretty out of line. Lets be fair - it is difficult/expensive to find parts and labor for the Mooney-specific parts in our plane. I was turned down by a couple of A&P's while trying to find someone to work on my plane at my home airport and I'm currently living with a number of small problems which cannot be fixed because of parts availability concerns. For example, my pitch trim indicator cable is frozen up. It's basically a bike cable with a custom screwed end fitting. I called my local MSC for a replacement quote and they gave me 6 months and over $1000. Are you kidding me? Another example is the prop cable - $800 for a Mooney where you can buy the Piper/Cessna variant for $250. And don't forget the fact that if you miss some corrosion spots during the pre-buy (or just get unlucky..) you can pretty much expect to scrap the entire airframe. I don't have first hand experience here but I have heard similar corrosion repairs in simple non-retractable pipers and cessnas are affordable enough to consider.

That being said the really important wear items like the engine and prop are easy to repair and work on and parts are easy to find. Similarly, I've had no problem finding parts for landing gear components. It's just the obscure stuff like switch covers, push-pull cables, brackets, etc that can get difficult.

Let me be clear: I really like my Mooney. I don't think you're going to find a certified 4-seat plane that's as fast and efficient in the $40k-$80k price range as a C/E/F. That should be your deciding factor, not parts availability. If you can really live with flying at 110kts to save some money on part and labor then you may want to think about it. I know that wasn't a hard choice for me. 

Probably worth noting that even more modern aircraft can and do end up with parts on back order or discontinued. Our Cirrus has had to wait for a fairly common part even... thankfully nothing that grounded it, but still, parts do go on back order and take some time. For us it was a few weeks.

[ragedracer1977]

3 hours ago, Brian_tii said:

Probably worth noting that even more modern aircraft can and do end up with parts on back order or discontinued. Our Cirrus has had to wait for a fairly common part even... thankfully nothing that grounded it, but still, parts do go on back order and take some time. For us it was a few weeks.

Funny you mention that.  The school has an SR20 that's been grounded for going on 2 months now, waiting on a circuit board because one of the alternators isn't working right... 

[Guest]

We have been a Cirrus Service centre for a long time and have only experience one back order which grounded a plane.  Last fall there was a shortage of line cutters for the CAPS, it lasted less than 2 weeks.

Clarence

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I felt exactly this way during a fuel stop once in Wink, Texas. Apparently it was the boyhood home of Roy Orbison and they have a little shrine to him in the FBO. It totally gave new meaning to "Crying" and "Only the Lonely" to me. Wow, what a desolate place that was. 

I've been there, much nicer than Dell City.

[Bob_Belville]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 11:55 AM, neonbjb said:

Lets be fair - it is difficult/expensive to find parts and labor for the Mooney-specific parts in our plane. I was turned down by a couple of A&P's while trying to find someone to work on my plane at my home airport and I'm currently living with a number of small problems which cannot be fixed because of parts availability concerns. For example, my pitch trim indicator cable is frozen up. It's basically a bike cable with a custom screwed end fitting. I called my local MSC for a replacement quote and they gave me 6 months and over $1000. Are you kidding me? Another example is the prop cable - $800 for a Mooney where you can buy the Piper/Cessna variant for $250. 

• McFarlane makes the control cables for Mooney. They'll make a "owner manufactured" throttle, prop, or mixture cable for way less than half your $800. Great customer service, great cables. I replaced all 3 for under 1 AMU. http://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/Products/?CategoryID=219&
• The flap and pitch cables on my '66 E were both inop when I bought the plane. We fabricated replacement cables for a few bucks.
• Of no help to our new MSer from AZ but my A&P/IA loves to work on Mooneys and thanks in part to referrals through this panel he's getting more and more to work on. He told me yesterday that he's hired 2 more part time, experienced mechanics to work on the "junk" so that he can concentrate on Mooneys. By "junk" he means just about everything else - C,P, and especially B. He only half joking, every time I see him he tells me something about the design of the Mooneys compared to other planes.

For the record I've owned 2 M20Es, the first for 11 years when it was fairly new, and the current one for 5 years which is eligible for AARP membership. The first one which I flew 2500 hours is still going strong with about 10,000 hours on the airframe (which has no service limit).

[Dream to fly]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 8:17 PM, ragedracer1977 said:

I'm a renter at the school where I learned how to fly.  I was in today renting a 172 and mentioned to the office lady that I was looking at Mooneys.  She spent the next 30 minutes trying to talk me out of it.  

Be honest, is any of what she said valid?

She said that Mooney parts are difficult to come by when something breaks - either you have to scour junkyards and hope to find it or go aftermarket.  If you're on a XC and have problems, you'll have trouble finding a mechanic who knows how to work on it.  Maintenance is very expensive.

I guess what I'm asking is, what are the concerns about buying and maintaining a Mooney M20 C-F models, vs. say a Cessna 210?

I just recently bought a 1967 Mooney and like you I did a lot of research before buying that model.  I can tell you as most will on this Forum that Mooney is probably one of the few that can be totally rebuilt.  The cost maybe the ultimate deciding factor but they can be rebuilt.   Along with that they are also very well built and some have described it as a flying cage.  They are robust, fast, and very economical to operate, airframe and power plant wise.  Avionics is a whole other cost where the sky is the limit.  I will recommend this from my recent purchase  that has snowballed into a major money issue.  Get someone who is an AP that works on Mooneys as their primary love.  I didn't know about this forum until after the purchase I made.  There are a lot of smart guys and some very smart and sarcastic too on this forum that would love to help!!!  When you are ready to chose a plane to purchase get an annual done not a pre-buy and get multiple people to look at it.  There are a lot of honest people but some that mean well and inadvertently cover issues that the untrained eye might miss.  The M20 platform is a great plane there are some hiccups with each one but anything that leaves the ground will have issues at some point.  As for comments you hear from people you talk to ask them directly their experience with OWNING a Mooney and then weigh their input with research you do.  I was just told that Mooney electric gear is terrible and has all sorts of problems. (this was a customer who came into my shop started talking planes with me and then started in on the type of landing gear I owned and shot all sorts of holes in it, all from a guy who actually never owned a mooney his friend did) Truth is it is the lazy mans Johnson bar and adjusted correctly and serviced correctly it has little issue. Do your research fly several makes and models and in the end choose the one that when you land the smile is from ear to ear and nothing can wipe it off your face. 

[MARZ]

On 4/9/2017 at 8:31 PM, Guitarmaster said:

1. Depends on the part. Some can be hard to find, others not. I have never had an issue.

2. "Mechanic won't know how to work on it.". B.S. Possibly if you are in BFE Kentucky or somewhere.


 

Hey BFE isn't in Kentucky - it's here in Texas

 

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBFE

[MARZ]

On 4/11/2017 at 3:47 PM, Mooneymite said:

Sorry, Matt.  BFE is not in Ky.  It's in Texas....near Lubbock.  Ask me how I know....

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBFE

OK - I'll bite - how do you know

[Mooneymite]

51 minutes ago, Mike Ropers said:

OK - I'll bite - how do you know

I've  been there.  

I suspect the "BFE" identifier was assigned by someone after experiencing Brownfield.

The people are all nice there.  Maybe they really don't  want us all visiting and ruining the place?  

[MBDiagMan]

People make jokes about the panhandle.  They are typically motivated to do so due to the geographical shock when they see the dry, flat country.  Some of the greatest people I have ever met are in the Texas Panhandle.  By and large, these are friendly, hard working, independent people.  There is something about the lifestyle of the area that breeds it.

[jamesm]

If she was using a Cessna 210 as example  compared to a Mooney earlier  models (B,C,D,E,F,G say the 1960 vintage)  l  would say  that is a poor example,  with one  exception of the M22 Mustang.

1) Cessna hasn't made the 210 since the mid 1980's or so if memory serves me correctly. Not comparing apples to apples.

2) You can  get  a Mooney M20C model fairly cheap relatively speaking  ~$30K - $40k or so.  However with the prices of the M20C being cheaper than say a  well equipped  172 where the  value is probably  $5 k - $12 k  more than say a M20C .  I know is not even   a fair comparison from the effeminacy  aspect between a C172 and M20C. But  if you   should  have unfortunate accident/ incident  where you had  a some sort of prop strike.  you do have more of a potential of totaling the aircraft  value  due to having  a  low valued aircraft.

3.)  What people  don't  realize  about Mooney is that Mooney was real smart by  keeping  a majority   of it's Models   that they ever produced  starting with M20 (1950's)   to  current Double Door  Acclaims  and Ovations  under  same  the  airframe Type Certificate  (2A3 ).  the Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) is a  magic piece of paper that make the air frame  airworthy the Engine has is own TCDS and the propeller   has it own TCDS .  So if some one wanted  to get an autopilot  or a new flap indicator approved  for  a Mooney  it is one  airframe type certificate as oppose to Cessna  3 or 4 type certificates  per model  (a Model being C172, C182 ,  C206,  etc)   and depending which FSDO you get deal with this can be painful process.  So I have been told.  This  can make the approval  process  simpler  for  getting new products being  certified under one Type certificate.  

4 ) the Cessna C210  would probably more comparable somewhere   Between a M20J  and the  M20TN models price wise is my guess.

What it  really  boils down to  is that it  depends on what type of flying that you want to do.

Like many  others have already have said .... I have not any problems getting parts.

 Just my humble opinion.

James 1967 M20C

[Brian_tii]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 2:58 AM, ragedracer1977 said:

Funny you mention that.  The school has an SR20 that's been grounded for going on 2 months now, waiting on a circuit board because one of the alternators isn't working right... 

Ouch, sounds like the mechanic doesn't have it right. Usually those can be cleaned out / fixed with new relays / solenoids as I recall. They may want to join COPA. Also used parts are available too. I wonder if they really want it flying... :-)

[MBDiagMan]

On 4/13/2017 at 5:23 PM, jamesm said:

If she was using a Cessna 210 as example  compared to a Mooney earlier  models (B,C,D,E,F,G say the 1960 vintage)  l  would say  that is a poor example,  with one  exception of the M22 Mustang.

1) Cessna hasn't made the 210 since the mid 1980's or so if memory serves me correctly. Not comparing apples to apples.

2) You can  get  a Mooney M20C model fairly cheap relatively speaking  ~$30K - $40k or so.  However with the prices of the M20C being cheaper than say a  well equipped  172 where the  value is probably  $5 k - $12 k  more than say a M20C .  I know is not even   a fair comparison from the effeminacy  aspect between a C172 and M20C. But  if you   should  have unfortunate accident/ incident  where you had  a some sort of prop strike.  you do have more of a potential of totaling the aircraft  value  due to having  a  low valued aircraft.

3.)  What people  don't  realize  about Mooney is that Mooney was real smart by  keeping  a majority   of it's Models   that they ever produced  starting with M20 (1950's)   to  current Double Door  Acclaims  and Ovations  under  same  the  airframe Type Certificate  (2A3 ).  the Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) is a  magic piece of paper that make the air frame  airworthy the Engine has is own TCDS and the propeller   has it own TCDS .  So if some one wanted  to get an autopilot  or a new flap indicator approved  for  a Mooney  it is one  airframe type certificate as oppose to Cessna  3 or 4 type certificates  per model  (a Model being C172, C182 ,  C206,  etc)   and depending which FSDO you get deal with this can be painful process.  So I have been told.  This  can make the approval  process  simpler  for  getting new products being  certified under one Type certificate.  

4 ) the Cessna C210  would probably more comparable somewhere   Between a M20J  and the  M20TN models price wise is my guess.

What it  really  boils down to  is that it  depends on what type of flying that you want to do.

Like many  others have already have said .... I have not any problems getting parts.

 Just my humble opinion.

James 1967 M20C

I fully expect that the fact that most Mooneys falling under the same type certificate is no accident.  Al began certifying aircraft with the folks in DC before he was old enough to legally drink.  Literally!  One of his values as a designer/engineer was his experience certifying planes.  He had the system figured out quite well by the time of his 20th design.

[mooney driver]

Go with Mooney!...you'll literally never look back!!!!

[Bug Smasher]

Absolutely go with a Mooney! I was reminded why I fly a Mooney yesterday when ATC informed a Cessna that I was overtaking him by 50kts. In fact, the controller mentioned it twice :-) 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, mooney driver said:

Go with Mooney!...you'll literally never look back!!!!

He's right, we don't have rear windows, we can't look back!  

My wife enjoys going places in the Mooney, but she's not interested in learning to fly it. One night, crossing the Appalachians into the wind (10,000 msl, 140 mph indicated = ~168 mph True or 146 KTAS),  our groundspeed was showing 68 knots; she looked at me and said, "Sure glad we aren't in a Cessna!"

[kpaul]

17 hours ago, mooney driver said:

Go with Mooney!...you'll literally never look back!!!!

I though we always looked back...at the planes we just passed!

[Browncbr1]

On 4/16/2017 at 0:19 PM, Bug Smasher said:

Absolutely go with a Mooney! I was reminded why I fly a Mooney yesterday when ATC informed a Cessna that I was overtaking him by 50kts. In fact, the controller mentioned it twice :-) 

It's pretty cool when you pass a C-130 and an F-16 too... although, to their credit, they were refueling in flight!   haha... 

[chrixxer]

On 4/11/2017 at 7:22 AM, Skates97 said:

The flight school where I took my lessons has a M20B that they instruct in and also rent. When I was talking about buying a Mooney I was advised by someone from the school (not my CFI) that I should first buy a Cherokee or a similar basic trainer and fly it for a few years to get more experience before moving up to something like a Mooney. After more research and talking with other Mooney owners I decided that I could fly a Mooney as a low time (58.6 total hours), newly minted PPL. I bought mine, got my transition training, and have been having a great time, almost 40 hours in it since mid December. It is not some mythical beast that is hard to fly. There are a few more things to pay attention to (gear/prop), you have to make sure you hit the right speeds on approach, and everything happens faster, but it is much more responsive with the direct linkage to the control surfaces and not "difficult" to fly.

770? I'll be up in it Wednesday getting a refresher before I climb into my new-to-me E for a 1700nm trip home. No one there ever tried to talk me out of a Mooney (indeed, Lou was helping me look for an F), but I started talking Mooney after I'd already clocked ~40 hours in an Arrow and had about 250 total time.

[Skates97]

4 hours ago, chrixxer said:

770? I'll be up in it Wednesday getting a refresher before I climb into my new-to-me E for a 1700nm trip home. No one there ever tried to talk me out of a Mooney (indeed, Lou was helping me look for an F), but I started talking Mooney after I'd already clocked ~40 hours in an Arrow and had about 250 total time.

Yep, that's the plane they have. Lou runs a great school, I enjoyed every bit of it and have referred a number of people to the school. If I had a couple hundred hours I doubt they would have tried to steer me away from a Mooney, but at the time I still had less than 40 hours and hadn't gotten my PPL yet.

[chrixxer]

10 hours ago, Skates97 said:

Yep, that's the plane they have. Lou runs a great school, I enjoyed every bit of it and have referred a number of people to the school. If I had a couple hundred hours I doubt they would have tried to steer me away from a Mooney, but at the time I still had less than 40 hours and hadn't gotten my PPL yet.

I drove out from the west side for both my PPL and my CFII time (though ended up finishing up in a 430W Cherokee 180 out of SMO and doing my IR checkride with Joe Justice out at CMA). Great people.good school.

[thinwing]

On 4/12/2017 at 6:03 AM, Bob_Belville said:

• McFarlane makes the control cables for Mooney. They'll make a "owner manufactured" throttle, prop, or mixture cable for way less than half your $800. Great customer service, great cables. I replaced all 3 for under 1 AMU. http://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/Products/?CategoryID=219&
• The flap and pitch cables on my '66 E were both inop when I bought the plane. We fabricated replacement cables for a few bucks.
• Of no help to our new MSer from AZ but my A&P/IA loves to work on Mooneys and thanks in part to referrals through this panel he's getting more and more to work on. He told me yesterday that he's hired 2 more part time, experienced mechanics to work on the "junk" so that he can concentrate on Mooneys. By "junk" he means just about everything else - C,P, and especially B. He only half joking, every time I see him he tells me something about the design of the Mooneys compared to other planes.

For the record I've owned 2 M20Es, the first for 11 years when it was fairly new, and the current one for 5 years which is eligible for AARP membership. The first one which I flew 2500 hours is still going strong with about 10,000 hours on the airframe (which has no service limit).

My I A also..Hard to work on....those wonderful belly panels with everything exposed and out in the open...gear,flap,control push tubes acessible all the way to the tail,hydraulics fuel all there...try that on a Cessna/bonanza/Baron...I think he likes being stretched out on comfy carpeting with my Mooney jacked to comfortable working height