mooney buying guide?

[alaskan9974]

I am a new pilot looking for info on my first plane purchase. I live in Alaska, however most of my flying is point to point, 200+ miles, from state maintained gravel to asphalt. None of my friends have experience in Mooneys, some tried to steer me towards a 182 or similar, but off field abilities don't interest me, I would rather use a boat or snow machine in that case, rather then compromise. 

I see a lot of 1965-1980 mooneys under my 70k budget, anything specifically to look for besides the AD's and corrosion of cabin spars. How do they do off decently maintained gravel? Will I become a prop shop frequent flyer?

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Alaskan!

We have a few threads worth reading regarding who flies off unpaved strips....

It turns out there are several people do this often and one guy takes a more extreme attitude than the others...

One thing important is how you handle the plane on take-off the prop is closer to the ground than many other planes and at low speeds and high power output you can move a lot of stones....

There are a couple of Mooney pilots around Alaska.  It is a nice way to travel fast and efficiently...

A pre-purchase inspection is a great step for protecting your wallet.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Yetti]

This thread should cover most of your questions.  9" between the tip of the prop and a prop shop.  Lots of people fly off dirt strips

 

[bonal]

Welcome Alaska, personally I would not subject my Mooney to a gravel runway not because it can't handle it but would hate to abuse my propeller that way.

[1964-M20E]

Yes the Mooney can handle unpaved strips.  I base mine on a grass strip.  I theorize that this is harder on the landing gear components but that is true of any plane landing on a not very well maintained paved strip that is rough.

You say that your standard run is 200nm between two public owned airports one with a paved strip and the other with gravel.  I wouldn't rule out a 182 or even a 180 or 185 tail dragger.  As you are likely aware these are very capable airplanes as well and would suit your mission fine and be about 1.5 +/- hour flight in either a Cessna or a Mooney.

With a fixed gear tail dragger you can also put slightly larger tires on it that will handle the gravel runway even better.

[alaskan9974]

3 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

Yes the Mooney can handle unpaved strips.  I base mine on a grass strip.  I theorize that this is harder on the landing gear components but that is true of any plane landing on a not very well maintained paved strip that is rough.

You say that your standard run is 200nm between two public owned airports one with a paved strip and the other with gravel.  I wouldn't rule out a 182 or even a 180 or 185 tail dragger.  As you are likely aware these are very capable airplanes as well and would suit your mission fine and be about 1.5 +/- hour flight in either a Cessna or a Mooney.

With a fixed gear tail dragger you can also put slightly larger tires on it that will handle the gravel runway even better.

Yes I was recommended a 182, but for point to point flying, I didn't see anything that matched the efficiency of a mooney. If I ever got into off airport stuff, I don't need anything expensive or fancy. 

 I do fly 450mi+ to Fairbanks occasionally with friends, but I need to finish my IFR cert before I make a habit of it. 

I have seen a few mid hour M20 G's and F's, I know a few guys up here with the same engines on their cubs and they have no complaints. On gravel I expect to need to pay more attention to throttle inputs, I did a search for dirt ops but didn't see much. 

Where I live is a mix of caravans and cubs, with not too many mooney pilots in between to bug. 

[Hank]

Check out YouTube videos by piperpainter for back country, unpaved Mooney versatility. He flies an M20-C, as do I, but I dont do it like he does .   .

[gsxrpilot]

If you're doing a lot of short hops, pattern work, training, or in other words, lots of takeoffs and landings, with little flying in between? Then get a 182. Or some other plane that is good for landing and takeoff on the gravel strips. But if you fly like most of us Mooney owners fly where the number of takeoff's and landings in the log book is dwarfed by the number of flight hours, because most all flights are multi-hour cross country flights. Then most certainly get a plane that excels in the environment where it spends most of it's time... in flight. And that would be a Mooney.

[pinerunner]

I haven't gone into a grass strip yet, but I intend to with my older M20E. My read on it is that Mooney pilots should be picky about the grass strips they go into. The Mooney sits so low that a prop strike happens more easily. A pot hole that would be a nonissue for a Bonanza might be a prop strike in a Mooney. With a bit of care to that issue there's no reason to stay away from grass strips. I'm not so sure about gravel. Check with other pilots going in there. Check your prop before and after. A few chips can be filed out; seaplane pilots have to put up with that. I know the older E model can get out of a pretty short place but we're not going to compete with super cubs. I've heard it said multiple times that a well maintained grass strip is just as good to fly out of as a paved runway.

They're much harder to find than Mooneys but you might like a Swift. I know an old friend of the family that flies one out of a 1700 ft grass strip on his old farm. Check out East Sumner in Maine. He's a mechanic and an inspector too so he does his own work. It's a sweet looking complex taildragger.

[pinerunner]

One thought I'd add to this. I tried the traditional soft field take-off with my M20E and didn't like the way it acted. I started off with enough back pressure so the nose lifted up. I lost contact with the ground prematurely before takeoff speed and kind of slipped sideways but didn't really climb away from the ground. I think ground effect got me off just a few inches at too low an airspeed to fly out of it. Nothing bad came of it. the speed soon built up so I could fly away. but I want solid contact and then solid climb so I didn't try that again. I don't want to be drifting sideways three inches off the ground. 

An honest to gosh soft field takeoff in a Mooney? I guess you lift the nose just enough to be sure you're lightening it but no more. I've toyed with the idea of leaving the flaps up and then giving two pumps just before rotating, but that's making things more complicated. I wanted a complex aircraft when I bought the Mooney but I like my complexity as simple as possible.

Edited March 22, 2017 by pinerunner

[M20F]

Hitting a decent bump at any amount of speed in a Mooney it is going to bounce hard and potentially porpoise.    

I have done some gravel roads and fields in WY/ND and it isn't really comparable to landing at a nice grass glider strip.  

It sounds like your mind is made up but Mooney's aren't the best option for unimproved surfaces in my opinion. 

[carusoam]

Same Cg vs main wheel placement challenge, but at the other end of the flight...

 

Prior to take-off....

a typical C152 can be taxied holding the nose off the ground.

A mooney's nose doesn't come off the ground until it is about ready to fly.

 

upon landing...

The C152, the nose can be held off the ground indefinitely...

A mooney's nose wheel is drawn to the pavement like a magnet (when I land)...   Somebody with an AOAi does a better job than I do... 

 

Speeds and Cg are your friend... flying often improves on these...

 

PP ideas, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[SantosDumont]

Do you have any Mooney time?  Mooney's don't have struts or any kind of conventional shock absorbers, just rubber discs that are very unforgiving. If you hit a little hard or a little fast you will bounce right back up in the air.   At that point unless you have a few thousand feet of runway in front of you your only option is to go around. 

I would never land mine on anything other than a runway. 

I recommend you get a few hours of Mooney time and you'll see what I mean in the first few times you bounce right off the runway. 

While I love the XC capabilities of the Mooney, if my mission was to land in unimproved areas I would look for something I could bring in as slow as possible with nice big tundra tires. 

[Jim Peace]

I am an Alaska resident, be sure to check to see what the premiums are to keep the plane in Alaska....you may be unpleasantly surprised......

[gsxrpilot]

I've flown both my C and my 252 into and out of unimproved strips including flying into 88NV. I've never had a problem. They're certainly not bush planes, but are perfectly fine to land on most any defined runway.

[Mooneymite]

Unless you just need a 4 place airplane, I'd recommend an RV-4, 6, 7, 8 or 9.  Stones and props don't mix well.

[gsxrpilot]

47 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Unless you just need a 4 place airplane, I'd recommend an RV-4, 6, 7, 8 or 9.  Stones and props don't mix well.

I love my Mooney, but if I didn't need the back seat for the dog, I'd be flying an RV. It was a condition to get the CFO's approval for the airplane. It had to have room for the dog.

[Mooneymite]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

I love my Mooney, but if I didn't need the back seat for the dog, I'd be flying an RV. It was a condition to get the CFO's approval for the airplane. It had to have room for the dog.

Paul, that's why Van designed the RV-10......for dogs!  

I liked my RV-4, but it was really a single place airplane that a passenger could squeeze into.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Mooneymite

[gsxrpilot]

3 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Paul, that's why Van designed the RV-10......for dogs!  

We looked at a few of them at OSH two years ago. My wife really liked the new interiors with cup holders. If I could get an RV-10 in a taildragger configuration I might do it.  But they look too much like the Cirrus. It's gotta be a tailwheel or retract. The rest all look like trainers to me.

Oh, and $200K is a bit much for me to spend... especially if I have to leave the gear down all the time.

[Mooneymite]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

We looked at a few of them at OSH two years ago. My wife really liked the new interiors with cup holders. If I could get an RV-10 in a taildragger configuration I might do it.  But they look too much like the Cirrus. It's gotta be a tailwheel or retract. The rest all look like trainers to me.

Oh, and $200K is a bit much for me to spend... especially if I have to leave the gear down all the time.

I agree completely.  However, the gear-down speedsters seem to be the trend nowadays.

And $200K is just the beginning.

[gsxrpilot]

41 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

However, the gear-down speedsters seem to be the trend nowadays.

I guess I'm old school then 

[carusoam]

Black rock desert is a lake this time of year.  Worthy of a sea plane rating...

I saw some pictures in the newspaper recently...

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Black rock desert is a lake this time of year.  Worthy of a sea plane rating...

Yep, which will make for a nice and flat, smooth, hard, surface  come September.

[alaskan9974]

On 3/22/2017 at 6:47 PM, SantosDumont said:

Do you have any Mooney time?  Mooney's don't have struts or any kind of conventional shock absorbers, just rubber discs that are very unforgiving. If you hit a little hard or a little fast you will bounce right back up in the air.   At that point unless you have a few thousand feet of runway in front of you your only option is to go around. 

I would never land mine on anything other than a runway. 

I recommend you get a few hours of Mooney time and you'll see what I mean in the first few times you bounce right off the runway. 

While I love the XC capabilities of the Mooney, if my mission was to land in unimproved areas I would look for something I could bring in as slow as possible with nice big tundra tires. 

No, no mooney time. I was looking 182's for a few months, but all the good ones get snatched up pretty quickly, hence the reasoning in my head for one a/c for travel and complex/ifr time building, and eventually a simple (inexpensive) cub or similar for off airport fun. A buddy of mine has a Lance and flies out of every airport that I would be operating from. Coincindentally one is for sale in state but is bigger then I need.

I haven't taken a tape measure to his prop and ground, or tire comparisons, maybe next time I visit the hangar. He doesn't have any issues as far as I know. I am not intentionally intending any off airport excursions anytime soon.