What are we paying for Insurance Premiums

[M20F-1968]

I just looked at the post regarding R Model insurance.  The answers are difficult to assess as no one posted hull value, coverage or total premiums paid.  So, I started this thread.  Please post your Mooney Model, hull value covered, coverage amounts and total annual costs.

I know I am paying more than most, however mine is a special case since I have an F model that is professionally assessed at $206,000.00.

Some companies will not insure much above book value, however there are more and updated Mooneys, so I am wondering what the real market is like.

I am insured with AVEMCO.  

I would like to know what others are paying with similarly equipped airplanes and similar hull values.

John Breda

[Bob_Belville]

John, this could be interesting. (You need to post your own premium!) In addition to the model and the hull value folks should indicate any claim history, age, ratings, and experience, all of which are taken into consideration by the underwriters.  

I am paying quite a lot more than I was paying before I had a claim that cost the insurer $30k. Premium for '66E with $80k hull is $2300 with Falcon. (3 years ago I paid $1450 for $100k hull.) I suspect the negatives of my age (74) and the claim overrides the positives of my TT (3200 hours), time in type (hours (2700), IR, and a lot of PPP and FAAST continuing ed with the underwriters. I've now paid the higher rate for 3 years and Falcon has worked hard to find a better rate, maybe next year.

[Ovation3]

2006 M20R hull 300k, liability 1Mil., Medical payments 5k, 0 deductible for motion and not in motion. Named pilot, 750 time in Mooneys, 235 time in M20R, 140hrs last 12 months, Total time 2800hrs, ratings Com mel, sel, see, rotorcraft, cfi, cfii, mei.

Premium $2200. 

[rbridges]

1965 C model.  60K hull.  I believe I'm paying around $900ish.  500 hours TT, 350 in make/model.

[Browncbr1]

67 F, 55k hull, ~200 hours TT/make/model, instrument rating, autopilot with alt hold, kept in shade hanger, $924 (Global)   everyone else was about $500 more..   I'll increase the hull value next renewal though because I don't think I could come close to buying another F like this for 55

[1964-M20E]

$70k on the hull $999 through AOPA

[1964-M20E]

  On 3/16/2017 at 2:49 PM, Browncbr1 said:

67 F, 55k hull, ~200 hours TT/make/model, instrument rating, autopilot with alt hold, kept in shade hanger, $924 (Global)   everyone else was about $500 more..   I'll increase the hull value next renewal though because I don't think I could come close to buying another F like this for 55

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Try to insure it for the most you can when you first get it.  Insurance companies are reluctant to increase hull value the second year.  You can switch companies and agencies and get an increase but generally the same company will balk at it from my experience.

If you do major upgrades it may be an easier sell.

 

 

[Pritch]

1984 K, 87,000 hull.  $1100 thru Falcon (Starr).  900 TT, with 700 retract.

Pritch

[nsrrlearjet]

1970 C. 40k hull 1 mil liab. Falcon/Global. $461. 7000 TT, 4500 jet, 1500 T-prop, 60hr Mooney


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[1964-M20E]

One more comment on hull values.  The lower you have the hull value the quicker the insurance company will total the plane if something happens.  That is when the estimated repairs reach 70% to 80% (I forget exactly where the cutoff is) of the insured value they total the plane instead of fixing it.  Yes you save some $ initially on premiums but is it enough differential when buying another plane?  Because you always get something that is more than you insured your last plane for. 

Personal opinion we need to have he insurance companies fixing more of these planes instead of totaling them when something happens.

 

 

 

 

[PTK]

  On 3/16/2017 at 8:00 PM, 1964-M20E said:

One more comment on hull values.  The lower you have the hull value the quicker the insurance company will total the plane if something happens.  That is when the estimated repairs reach 70% to 80% (I forget exactly where the cutoff is) of the insured value they total the plane instead of fixing it.  Yes you save some $ initially on premiums but is it enough differential when buying another plane?  Because you always get something that is more than you insured your last plane for. 

Personal opinion we need to have he insurance companies fixing more of these planes instead of totaling them when something happens.

 

 

 

 

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The opposite is also true. If you overinsure they are more likely to repair. It can potentially take a long time which means being without an airplane and in the end you get a badly damaged but "repaired" airplane which you may not want! It's a double edged sword. I prefer to be properly insured. Not under or over. And if need be total it, take the money and buy another one.

[Ron McBride]

But, what is proper value.  Some of us have way to many improvements in them to ever get the money out of them.  In 8 years I started with a good F, and now I have spent over a$100,000 on it, and still need/want more.

Ron

[PTK]

  On 3/16/2017 at 8:13 PM, N803RM said:

But, what is proper value.  Some of us have way to many improvements in them to ever get the money out of them.  In 8 years I started with a good F, and now I have spent over a$100,000 on it, and still need/want more.

Ron

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Proper value is proper market value which accounts for depreciation. If we decide to put in more money than we can ever get out it's a choice we make and a chance we take. It's stated value and underwriters don't like to overinsure.

[KLRDMD]

  On 3/16/2017 at 8:13 PM, N803RM said:

But, what is proper value.  Some of us have way to many improvements in them to ever get the money out of them.  In 8 years I started with a good F, and now I have spent over a$100,000 on it, and still need/want more.

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What would it take to replace it today with the closest airplane currently on the market ? That should be the insured value.

[SantosDumont]

  On 3/16/2017 at 12:57 PM, M20F-1968 said:

I just looked at the post regarding R Model insurance.  The answers are difficult to assess as no one posted hull value, coverage or total premiums paid.  So, I started this thread.  Please post your Mooney Model, hull value covered, coverage amounts and total annual costs.

I know I am paying more than most, however mine is a special case since I have an F model that is professionally assessed at $206,000.00.

Some companies will not insure much above book value, however there are more and updated Mooneys, so I am wondering what the real market is like.

I am insured with AVEMCO.  

I would like to know what others are paying with similarly equipped airplanes and similar hull values.

John Breda

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I really want to see what a $206k F looks like. You got pictures somewhere?

[SantosDumont]

$2400 Avemco  1967F. $65k hull, $1M liability, $100k occupants.  250TT, 130 Mooney

 

 

[Hector]

  On 3/17/2017 at 1:46 AM, SantosDumont said:

$2400 Avemco  1967F. $65k hull, $1M liability, $100k occupants.  250TT, 130 Mooney
 
 

That's really expensive. Did you shop around?

[201er]

Let's just say I started at around $3k with Avemco with less than 300 hours total and zero in type, within a year with some time and IR got it down to around $2k. But with some experience and Falcon, I've gotten it down to around $1200. Varies by year because some years I opt for more international coverage.

[Skates97]

1965 M20D (but they had to write it as a C because it was converted to retract/CS prop).

Brand new PPL, 58.6 total hours, no complex time, no time in type. $36,000 hull with the standard $1M liability, $100k occupants, no deductible, etc... $1,525 through Falcon (USAA Discount). Shopped three different brokers, all underwritten through Starr and Falcon kept coming back to match what the other two had. (There was a 4th but when I told them what I had been quoted they said they couldn't even come close). It was worth it to stay with Falcon, my non-owner policy was through them so they took the remaining amount left on it and gave me a credit. Ended up writing them a check for $1,301 for the first year.

[Bravoman]

  On 3/16/2017 at 2:33 PM, Ovation3 said:

2006 M20R hull 300k, liability 1Mil., Medical payments 5k, 0 deductible for motion and not in motion. Named pilot, 750 time in Mooneys, 235 time in M20R, 140hrs last 12 months, Total time 2800hrs, ratings Com mel, sel, see, rotorcraft, cfi, cfii, mei.

Premium $2200. 

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Is that liability coverage 1 mm smooth or are there sublimits for passengers?

[SantosDumont]

  On 3/17/2017 at 1:59 AM, Hector said:

 

That's really expensive. Did you shop around?

 

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No, I just rolled my renters policy into an owners policy. Probably will do some shopping when I finish my IR. 

[carusoam]

First year economics are tough...

you can get enough hours to qualify for a low rate.  But to get the hours you need to fly in the Mooney.

same thing with the IR

you pay for the first year a huge amount. Get the IR, the hours, and maybe some MAPA training. The second year you pay 1AMU less...

I was not able to get a discount until after the first year expired.

Keep this in mind if you can get past this hurdle before committing to ownership.  Saving 1 AMU can go a long way towards training in a Mooney.  Especially if you have a friend with a Mooney that is a CFI....

Just Thinking out loud.  Check with your insurance company.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 17, 2017 by carusoam

[jonhop]

84 M20J, Hull 85k, Liability 1Mil, Medical payments 5k, 0 deductible for motion and not in motion. Named pilot, 200 TT, 100 time in M20J, 100hrs last 12 months, Ratings SEL...

Open Pilot coverage for 500hrs TT, 25hrs time in type...

$1536 but I'm probably underinsured...

[salty]

First year with 60 TT and 10 in type on my 65 m20c with $30k hull cost me $1480. I'm currently waiting for my renewal numbers. I bumped hull to $35k and I've got another 80 hours time in type. 

[Godfather]

Surprised that a thread would be started complaining about no hard numbers given without starting us off with some good data. I'm for one interested what a $200k F looks like and the premium paid. For a data point...m20r $225k $2,200.