3rd Class Medical Reform

[thomas1142]

Does anyone have any information or any updates. I think I read somewhere that the FAA has six months, from when the law was passed, to come up with the proposed rules to implement. I know it has not been six months, but......

[Hank]

_{seems like the bill passed on July 15. New rules are supposed to be submitted in 180 days (6 months), and FAA can't take action against any pilot who flies in accordance with the provisions in the legislation IF new rules are not in effect after 365 days (1 year).} 

_{So I renewed my Class III in October . . . Hopefully for the last time.}

[Danb]

My class3 is due end of January same month as of the 180 days, I'm assuming I'll need one more physical unless it's done by next month. Ugh!

[aviatoreb]

1 minute ago, Danb said:

My class3 is due end of January same month as of the 180 days, I'm assuming I'll need one more physical unless it's done by next month. Ugh!

Mine was in July, so in theory I will never take one again.  I am leaning toward that.  I find it so intrusive and annoying I get in a bad mood each two years I need to submit to the class3 so I am likely to not do it again, but we turbo drivers will give up flight above 17500.  Probably I will do just that.  I am a bit torn.  In reality I rarely rarely actually go higher that 17500, and yes I occasionally go to FL19 but I can count on my hands the number of times above that.  So it is not giving up much and probably safer anyway to stay to 17500 and below.  Still its a bit sad to give up a bit of my airplanes envelope.

[Danb]

Erik I'm in that boat also, I actually only go 18000 or higher for wx, generally icing in the summer,  if I had to go to fl180 for safety I would, I'd consider doing a NASA letter if it occurred, safety first worry about what to do about it later. Plus I don't like the mask.

[aviatoreb]

54 minutes ago, Danb said:

Erik I'm in that boat also, I actually only go 18000 or higher for wx, generally icing in the summer,  if I had to go to fl180 for safety I would, I'd consider doing a NASA letter if it occurred, safety first worry about what to do about it later. Plus I don't like the mask.

I sort of like the mask - it makes me feel like a fighter pilot.  I like the way my voice sounds like darth vadar in the mask-mic when I talk then breath.  Boston Center - this is Darth Vadar with you level FL21.

[DAVIDWH]

After meeting the initial requirements to fly under the reforms, pilots will need to visit a state-licensed physician — not an Aviation Medical Examiner — at least once every four years and provide an FAA-developed checklist of issues to be discussed during the visit. Both you and your physician will need to sign the checklist saying that you discussed the items on it. You will then need to make a note of the visit and include the checklist in your logbook.

The "Swamp" never drains easily!!

[neilpilot]

4 hours ago, DAVIDWH said:

After meeting the initial requirements to fly under the reforms, pilots will need to visit a state-licensed physician — not an Aviation Medical Examiner — at least once every four years and provide an FAA-developed checklist of issues to be discussed during the visit. Both you and your physician will need to sign the checklist saying that you discussed the items on it. You will then need to make a note of the visit and include the checklist in your logbook.

The "Swamp" never drains easily!!

Can I assume that most MSers don't carry their logbook (or the aircraft logs) in the aircraft?

[Hank]

8 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

Can I assume that most MSers don't carry their logbook (or the aircraft logs) in the aircraft?

That's a pretty safe bet. The FAA can ask to see them at any time, and we must produce them [ours and/or the plane's] "in a reasonable amount of time." Only Student Pilots are required to carry their logbook with them when they fly.

[flyboy0681]

12 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

Can I assume that most MSers don't carry their logbook (or the aircraft logs) in the aircraft?

I carry my logbook in my bag. I hear it comes in handy during those ICE shakedowns.

[RobertGary1]

We'll see how this plays out but I'll likely do this in a way to avoid my primary even if it means still using an AME. There are just too many opportunities for "possible" conditions to become real conditions. I.e. if you have a couple high BP readings in your Dr office but otherwise read normal at home. But your primary may then interpret that FAA's guidance as you are not qualifying. Vs. if you go to the AME, maybe you read high, they do the exam and test again and find you are ok. The AME knows the actual requirements and want you to pass. I don't know if many primaries will be as accommodating or really care about passing you as much. Although I suppose you could go to the primary, "fail" ignore it and then go to the AME. 

Also note that if you ask a primary to sign this outside of an otherwise office visit your health insurance will likely not cover it because you had no covered medical condition to justify the office visit. So maybe youd have to time to match your checkup, etc.  But if its not covered, the AME is much cheaper than the full price tag of a dr office visit.

Edited December 5, 2016 by RobertGary1

[thinwing]

3 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Oooh i can see the lawsuits already with that one.  "Pilot crashes after fainting killing. 30 in starbucks where his plane ended up". "It was discovered that he had discussed this fainting with his state licensed physician in recent months". 

So lawyers, now where do we start, well the family estate obviously, then the aeroplane becuase it should carry on flying after the pilot fainted, butthen, hold on, there is that state licencsed physician who discussed this issue with the pilot.  Hmmmmm chur, ching! Goes the register.   

Will there be a similar movement to ease medicals in Europe do you think?

[DXB]

4 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Oooh i can see the lawsuits already with that one.  "Pilot crashes after fainting killing. 30 in starbucks where his plane ended up". "It was discovered that he had discussed this fainting with his state licensed physician in recent months". 

So lawyers, now where do we start, well the family estate obviously, then the aeroplane becuase it should carry on flying after the pilot fainted, butthen, hold on, there is that state licencsed physician who discussed this issue with the pilot.  Hmmmmm chur, ching! Goes the register.   

I'm sure this will be  major snag in implementing this partially thought out regulatory framework.  As a "state licensed physician," there is no way I would ever sign off on this for a patient - it's unlikely I'll be asked of course, as I am not a primary care MD.  However, I will likely be put on the spot by a pilot friend at some point, and I will be forced to refuse. I would also not ask my own primary care MD to sign mine.  I will probably keep going to my AME for it if that remains a viable option.   

[Marauder]

2 minutes ago, DXB said:

I'm sure this will be  major snag in implementing this partially thought out regulatory framework.  As a "state licensed physician," there is no way I would ever sign off on this for a patient - it's unlikely I'll be asked of course, as I am not a primary care MD.  However, I will likely be put on the spot by a pilot friend at some point, and I will be forced to refuse. I would also not ask my own primary care MD to sign mine.  I will probably keep going to my AME for it if that remains a viable option.   

Hey Dev! I was wondering if you could do me a favor...

Personally, I think this will turn into a mess. I know how much trouble I went through to get an SI. My primary wouldn't sign off on anything until I gave something in writing indicating the FAA and my AME would be the final determining authority on my medical issuance. All I was asking for was a letter indicating my condition was stable (it was). I really believe this is not going to be an easy process for both pilots and the primary care physicians. It might be easier to stay with the 3rd class medical (I'm unrestricted on the 3rd class).

[Bob_Belville]

4 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

We'll see how this plays out but I'll likely do this in a way to avoid my primary even if it means still using an AME. There are just too many opportunities for "possible" conditions to become real conditions. I.e. if you have a couple high BP readings in your Dr office but otherwise read normal at home. But your primary may then interpret that FAA's guidance as you are not qualifying. Vs. if you go to the AME, maybe you read high, they do the exam and test again and find you are ok. The AME knows the actual requirements and want you to pass. I don't know if many primaries will be as accommodating or really care about passing you as much. Although I suppose you could go to the primary, "fail" ignore it and then go to the AME. 

Also note that if you ask a primary to sign this outside of an otherwise office visit your health insurance will likely not cover it because you had no covered medical condition to justify the office visit. So maybe youd have to time to match your checkup, etc.  But if its not covered, the AME is much cheaper than the full price tag of a dr office visit.

My Class III is not out until next October but I've been thinking I will probably continue to go that route. My experience with AMEs has been great. $120 and leans toward qualifying, not disqualifying. 

[DXB]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Hey Dev! I was wondering if you could do me a favor...

Chris, you realize there's anal exam included in the new language...not sure that should be considered a favor 

[tony]

At the end of the day, I personally think that medical reform will fail.  It will be easier to get an AME to provide you a third class medical certificate than it will be to have your personal physician (who practices defense medicine because they are afraid of litigation) sign off on a form that they don't understand.  

Time will tell.  

Edited December 6, 2016 by tony

[flyboy0681]

1 minute ago, tony said:

At the end of the day, I personally think that medical reform will fail.  It will be easier to get an AME to provide you a third class medical certificate than it will be to have your personal physician (who practices defense medicine because they are afraid of litigation) sign off on a form that they don't understand.  

Time will tell.  

I concur. The only thing that will change things is if the AOPA petitions the final rule making to exclude the provision to have ones physician sign off on an exam.

[Marauder]

Chris, you realize there's anal exam included in the new language...not sure that should be considered a favor 

Shouldn't be a problem. I heard you have a new endoscope!


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[mooniac15u]

Is there any reason an AME couldn't provide this service?  They are used to signing off on FAA medicals.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

I concur. The only thing that will change things is if the AOPA petitions the final rule making to exclude the provision to have ones physician sign off on an exam.

Your doctor isn't signing off on an "exam;" he is signing off on a "discussion." You just have to discuss your health, and know how it can effect your flying. Beyond that, you will still have to self-certify for each flight just as you do now. So at one of your regularly scheduled visits during the year, have a discussion, but alert the doc when you make the appointment and maybe give him the list. Pulling it out of your pocket unannounced at your annual physical could certainly be an unwelcome, @sshat move, with results that you may not appreciate . . .

[RobertGary1]

I'm sure my doctor would hesitate to sign it off too even though it says it's a "discussion". He's already told me he has patience he doesn't think should fly but are passing with the AME  

-Robert

[DonMuncy]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Your doctor isn't signing off on an "exam;" he is signing off on a "discussion." You just have to discuss your health, and know how it can effect your flying.

Perhaps we are jumping the gun a little. We "know" what congress told the FAA to write, but we have yet to see what they really write. What if they slip in wording which says the doctor has to say you are OK to pilot a plane. Will the congress have to go back and tell them to redo it, because they failed to write what congress mandated. Or can we just not comply. Just questions; I don't have answers.

[Marauder]

Perhaps we are jumping the gun a little. We "know" what congress told the FAA to write, but we have yet to see what they really write. What if they slip in wording which says the doctor has to say you are OK to pilot a plane. Will the congress have to go back and tell them to redo it, because they failed to write what congress mandated. Or can we just not comply. Just questions; I don't have answers.

I love it Don when you let your lawyer self out. It will depend on what they write. I just don't have a lot of confidence what they write will have the desired outcome we want. Anyone else see the 60 Minutes segment on the ADA laws?

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[1964-M20E]

This is where George and the AOPA need to step up and work with the FAA to write the rules as simple and as giving as the law will allow.  In fact we may be better off if the FA does nothing then you only need to follow the law.

I was not happy with the final bill but that is what the bureaucrats dictated we needed.