Upgrades to the panel - best bang for the $$$$

[1964-M20E]

Lots of good suggestions to spend your money.  We do that well here.

Fix what is necessary to get your IR and keep the DME it is useful doing approaches. Dump the old COM radio move the KX155 and get a nice new NAV/COM King or Garmin with a new CDI for doing approaches some other features on the new NAV/COMS are nice as well.  Mount the new NAV/COM low in the stack just above the transponder.  This will leave room for the future.

The rest leave alone for now until you decide exactly what you are going to be doing with the plane.

 

After you get you IR save up and get a nice new IFD540 or 550.

 

 

[DXB]

49 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

Fix what is necessary to get your IR and keep the DME it is useful doing approaches. Dump the old COM radio move the KX155 and get a nice new NAV/COM King or Garmin with a new CDI for doing approaches some other features on the new NAV/COMS are nice as well.  Mount the new NAV/COM low in the stack just above the transponder.  This will leave room for the future.

This is very reasonable too.  If I were buying my plane today, I think this might be my approach. By the time you get your IR, the Part 23 rewrite and some lower cost but highly functional options may be available for your panel.  Also doing your upgrades all at once will save you a bit of money, let you lay it out exactly how you want, and take care of the ads-b mandate at the same time in a way that makes most sense based your new setup. Downside is that if you wait too long, the ads-b install crunch might make avionics work very hard to get done and negate some of these cost benefits.   

A year and a half ago when I got my plane, the Part 23 rewrite seemed much further off.  I was impatient, and I hated my ugly panel and its multiple unreliable components, so I hemorrhaged money to make it into a clean modern setup.    

Still I seriously doubt you'd regret it later if you got the engine monitor now. Or maybe just mount your stratus/ipad, get that flaming skull gear knob, and have a blast with a ton of vfr flying 

[Pictreed]

I'll do some minor things but I asked my avionics guy if it would cost me more if I pulled the overhead panels to replace the GPS wires.  He said 'yes, let me do it'. Lol

I looked under my panel when I got my plane and shook my head and closed it up.  There was so much hokie stuff under there that I told my avionics guy to replace the wiring to what ever he installed.  Well, I was just referring to the automotive connectors. He said he found the wrong size wires, fuses, and so on.  Which I was told by the guy that was originally going to do the work but I caught him in the middle of a couple other projects and...blah blah blah. 

What I'm saying is, if you don't know the proper procedures then let the pros handle it.  

The work done for my new equipment looks really 'finished'.  No more hokie automotive connectors barely hanging on.  No more under dash fuses. 

[cwhaneyjr]

20 hours ago, carusoam said:

Don't be mislead into doing things yourself because others SEEM to be doing it....  Or even ARE doing it.

It is easy to buy and resell the hardware.  Sometimes you might get stuck with a device that is not able to be installed by some shops.  

Often Mooney pilots will install things with the assistance of their local mechanic or instrument expert.  It is really cool when you build this local relationship.  If you have the skill your mechanic will only need to review your work and sign the log book entries.

Then there will be some things only a hangar fairy will touch.

Often, you will see somebody write something like 'I just installed a GTN 750 in my Mooney'. They often leave out key words like 'I am a DOM at an MSC'. 

You may find many people here have the skill and the license to install these things themselves.  

Then there are people like me that will say they just installed something cool.  My typing will completely avoid the long drawn-out effort of saying I did it at annual and my mechanic really did the work.  I had nothing to do with the actual install other than the paying for it part...

Mooney ownership is cool.  MS is cool.

Best regard,

-a-

 

We killed a bear.  Paw shot it.

[carusoam]

Welcome on your first MS post, CW.

Best regards,

-a-

[par]

On 7/25/2016 at 7:34 PM, Patto said:

Okay, specifically which engine monitoring system(s) do you recommend and how much am I looking at for installation?

 

Get in touch with Don here on the board and buy a EDM-830. Then find an independent AP and have him install it. Total cost will be less than 3k and it is so worth the cost. PM me if you would like more insight. I have a 63c myself and that's what I did for my engine monitoring needs.

[steve@innoviator.com]

Innoviator  - Flight Science (www.innoviator.com) is soliciting interested Mooney Flyers for a STC panel upgrade that will look similar to the attached photo. 

[Patto]

13 minutes ago, steve@innoviator.com said:

Innoviator  - Flight Science (www.innoviator.com) is soliciting interested Mooney Flyers for a STC panel upgrade that will look similar to the attached photo. 

Looks great! And expensive... I'm probably a ways out from that type of investment.

[Yetti]

this is where I am going

Replaced the 170b with a Kx155 and new GS and now have dual GS and flip flop $2200

found a PS Engineering 6000 stereo audio panel and now have 4 place intercom $300

Left a 5" spot for a fancy big screen GPS com between the audio panel the 155 currently holding the other 170b for once I save more pennies.  Not a fan of garmin

Will go with the Freeflight adsb out one day $2500

currently have a samsung tablet and phone running droidefb $300

pulled the ADF, Loran C.  Going to wack a bit off the Loran C antenna to make it a VHF com antenna for say the portable radio.  going to pull the ADF antennas next time the bottom panels are off.

 

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

9 hours ago, steve@innoviator.com said:

Innoviator  - Flight Science (www.innoviator.com) is soliciting interested Mooney Flyers for a STC panel upgrade that will look similar to the attached photo. 

Nice, but does it interface with existing 430, 650s?

Given the real estate necessary, the dual screens look like they would take up the left stack space? 

A quick swag estimate is $9000 in hardware and some pretty extensive rework of the panel, plus what you charge for STC, you're in Garmin G500 territory.

Aspen had it half right with a glass replacement that just fits into existing panel holes, unfortunately they screw it up requiring the external GPS antenna, which adds an AMU to the installation costs.

For me, it's too much 

[Browncbr1]

Patto,

I would humbly suggest a JPI 830 or better.  I believe they pay for themselves by saving on exploratory maintenance and help you see things before they become dire, such as sticky valves or ignition issues.  I and many others consider a good EDM a must... I prefer the 830 to maintain some redundancy.

Navigation wise, there are a lot of opinions to go with big dollar solutions, but I love my Aera 510 mounted at the top of my radio stack.  I paid $400 for it second hand and can't think of anything that delivers a better bang for buck.  It also helped me identify a leaky altimeter above 7000.   you can load and activate approaches (just for sit. awareness).  

Also, as you are starting on your IR, you might want to think about back up AI and where it will go.  

enjoy your new toy!

craig

[kris_adams]

11 hours ago, steve@innoviator.com said:

Innoviator  - Flight Science (www.innoviator.com) is soliciting interested Mooney Flyers for a STC panel upgrade that will look similar to the attached photo. 

I think you'd find some interest here (me included) based on install success and integration with some of the other gear we have already installed (430/530/650/750/440/540/etc).

[gsxrpilot]

I bought my first airplane, an M20C 2.5 years ago. The first upgrade I made was to install an engine monitor. I was on a tight budget and so only looked at the entry level monitors. Those are the JPI EDM-700, the EI UBG-16, and the GEM from Insight Avionics.  You don't need anything more than one of those, for the carb, O360 in your C. But in the 350 hours I put on my C since I've owned her, I've spent more time with that instrument then almost anything else in my panel. It helped me diagnose an engine issue and learn to fly very efficiently as well. I wouldn't own an airplane without one.

Of the three listed, the JPI is the most widely installed, the EI has the reputation for the best customer service, but the GEM is unquestionably the most modern and up to date.  I actually chose a GEM G2 which included fuel flow, and carb temp. It's much more modern and much better screen then either the JPI or the EI.

I did the G2 installed for about $2500. I'd do it again in a minute. 

[Bob_Belville]

Patto, you have plenty of (sometimes conflicting) advice already so I'll just offer a better, IMNSHO, location for your (very useful) portable GPS 695 using a swivel RAM mount. 

[Bennett]

Locating a AERA 796 (a truly useful device as Bob says) is a matter of preference and how you ultimately set up your panel. I have mine located on the right side adjacent to the GTN 750. I tried the AirGizmo angled panel mout, but it blocked a clear view of the right side instruments (2"). The flat presentation requires the pilot to lean to the right to see the data clearly. I did not want to mount the unit on the windscreen, as I want to keep the windscreen as clear as possible. Some folks mount the 796s on the pilot yoke, but I don't want the weight there, or the attendant antenna and power wires to be under the yoke. I prefer to mount the much lighter iPad mini 4 on the yoke in battery mode.

[3914N]

Hey Patto, welcome to the wonderful world of Mooney ownership!  Your current panel looks dated, but in pretty good shape.

I have to jump in here and say that I strongly disagree with those on the thread that are suggesting any type of engine monitor.  Yes, they're useful.  Yes, I would absolutely love to have one in my 'G.  But as much as we love to swap log data and really dial in those exact mixture settings, the fact remains that pilots have been flying their O-360's quite safely long before multi-probe monitors were standard.

If you're getting your instrument rating and want to use your own airplane, then you will get much more use out of an IFR-approved GPS.  A Garmin 430 will also get you an updated COM and NAV in the same box.  If you're going to be owning the airplane for more than a few years, get a WAAS-equipped model.  While I believe you can fly IFR safely on VORs alone, an IFR GPS will add a significant amount of capability to your airplane through the approaches it opens up.

I'm a bit of a hypocrite because a 430W+indicator+install will run you $11-12 AMU.  A non-WAAS model may save you $1-2k.  Either way, I'd really suggest saving up for it instead of nickle-and-diming what you already have in the panel.

Just my $0.02.

[FFpilotChris]

I am digging this one back up.  I bought Patto's plane and have started upgrading the panel.   G5 attitude, electroluminescent bezel lights, and a JPI830 are all going in.

The nav 11 vor died so that is gone and the rpm moved next to the throttle to make room for the 830.

Also took out the non functioning egt gauge and replaced with a suction gauge.

Its all going in as fast as they mechanic works....so maybe another week.  Will post pics when its all done 

[FFpilotChris]

Next-  I bought an electric turn coordinator from Mid-Continent.  The one that is in there is vacuum.  The PC system is long gone on my plane.  Can I just replace the old turn coordinator with the new electric one ?

[Patto]

15 hours ago, FFpilotChris said:

Next-  I bought an electric turn coordinator from Mid-Continent.  The one that is in there is vacuum.  The PC system is long gone on my plane.  Can I just replace the old turn coordinator with the new electric one ?

I believe that the one that is in there actually is an electric one.

[FFpilotChris]

 

13 minutes ago, Patto said:

I believe that the one that is in there actually is an electric one.

It's electric and has vacuum lines hooked up to it as well.  I will post a pic

Edited July 25, 2019 by FFpilotChris

[Yetti]

16 hours ago, FFpilotChris said:

Next-  I bought an electric turn coordinator from Mid-Continent.  The one that is in there is vacuum.  The PC system is long gone on my plane.  Can I just replace the old turn coordinator with the new electric one ?

There is one Mid Continent - Brittian that is electric and vacuum so it is redundant in the same instrument.

[Yetti]

2 minutes ago, FFpilotChris said:

 

It's electric and has vacuum lines hooked up to it as well.  I will post a pic

BINGO

[FFpilotChris]

Just now, Yetti said:

There is one Mid Continent - Brittian that is electric and vacuum so it is redundant in the same instrument.

The Mid-Continent one I bought and want to put in is just electric.     I just wanted to make sure I am permitted to do that and am not required to have a vacuum turn coordinator for any reason. 

[Yetti]

Don't think it is listed in the TCDS.  That should be the guide here.   So then it is whatever your A&P is comfortable with.

[eman1200]

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 12:05 AM, Marauder said:

 

 

 

 

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how 'bout upgrading them 1980's white tube gym socks for a nice pair of ankle socks?