Mooney 201 upgrades

[bcwiseguy]

All,

I am a former owner of a 1966 M20E and I loved that aircraft; however, I am looking for a bit more this time around.

I am looking to probably purchase either a 252 or a 201 within the next 6 months. Concerning the 201, I know there are a number of upgrades that can be done to a 201 to clean up the airframe and gain some speed as well as update the look. I've seen some upgrades offered by LASAR and Mooney Mart. My question is this, which upgrades would be recommended and why? I've read the marketing hype but what I want is owner/operator feedback.

I will be using the aircraft for traveling across the country as I did in my E model. In looking at Mooney Mart's website, I am thinking along the lines of the following upgrades:

 

1. Speed brakes and long range tanks

2. 201 Speed Kit (Teflon aileron gap seals, F/G dorsal fin, Current production OEM Mooney overlapping nose gear doors, Rudder and elevator hinge covers, Wing root fairings, Inboard flap seals and check of rigging, Low Profile/Low Drag Main Gear Doors)

3. 252 Style Tips w/white rear facing recognition lights - Install Internal Hi-Efficiency VOR Blade antennas internally and remove stock "cats whisker" VOR antennas on tail

4. 252/205 Style Rounded Window Mod with 1/4" Thick Glass

 

Does anyone have experience with these mods or recommendations? What LASAR modifications would be recommended for a 201 that is stock?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Bartman]

There is no currently available mod to be added to the 201 that will benefit you in either speed or dispatch ability that the turbo on the 252 will give you, especially if you are truly flying "across the country". 

That being said, I have enjoyed my 201 and see no need to add speed mods as it is not cost effective for me. 150-155KTS for a stock 201 is fine with me. 

[DonMuncy]

I'll only speak to the speed brakes. I had them as a "must have" when I bought my 231. I have them and like them.  They are nice when ATC gives you a slam dunk, and when you miscalculate a little, they are helpful. However, they are far from necessary.

Bottom line, it they are on the plane you find, take them and be glad. But if they are not, don't worry, you will be fine without them. I would probably pay an extra AMU for an otherwise equal plane.

[carusoam]

Adding on...

The MooneyMart that you may remember is not the same business that is currently using the MooneyMart name.

Good luck with your search.

Welcome aboard,

-a-

[Piloto]

I have the long range tanks (100 gals total) in my M20J and found them a most for trips over 800nm. The uncertainty of winds and weather makes it easier to plan for long trips. You can fly a long cross country trip at full speed without sacrificing range. To make my life more comfortable on long trips I added a pilot relief tube. Unlike bottles and bags no need for disposal when landing. Because of its infinite disposal capability no need to limit on how much you drink.

José

[Tommy]

For the money you spent on those speed mods on 201, you will be much better off getting a nice interior upgrade (ie upholstery and avionics) to make your 15-minute-longer trip - for an 4 hour x-country flight - much more comfortable, enjoyable, and safer!

Edited July 24, 2016 by Tommy

[ArtVandelay]

I have all the speed mods, including one piece belly which you didn't mention.

Speed brakes are nice, especially in IMC, where personally I don't like the idea of slipping the plane.

One piece belly is fiberglass so they move the marker beacon antenna inside, which is suppose to save you 3-4 knots, the low drag gear doors are another 4 knots, the rest are just 1-2 knot improvements.

All done by PO.

Not sure how much they help, but I do make book numbers which apparently few others can say, all totaled I should be a 220 according to the hype, Mooney says only 4 (201->205). If you are going this route, probably should repaint the plane at the same time.

Oh yea, don't forget to ask them about how much weight this will add.

I personally like the winglets with recognition lights, you will want to wigwag them, they can melt the plastic covers when not in flight. Also you might as well convert to LEDs, save yourself some power and very bright, with added wing taxi,landing lights, everyone sees me.

But beware, the wing mounted taxi,landing lights will add drag.

[Mcstealth]

Welcome to the forum.

GO ENCORE!

DF

[bonal]

Mr. stealth any plans to turn that TBD into an M20 soon?

[Bob - S50]

What is your goal, that is purpose, for doing the upgrades?  You mention speed increases.  Is that to cut down the flight time or is it to make the plane more efficient?  I don't think there are any speed mods out there that will save you enough gas to pay for the mod.  If you are just looking for speed and don't care about the cost then you can probably eek out a couple more knots.

My personal opinion on some of your choices:

Speed brakes.  Like Don said, nice to have but not needed.  If ATC needs me down quicker than I can make it without speedbrakes, my answer is simply 'unable'.  If I'm VFR I can put the gear down for a rapid descent.  Speedbrakes also add weight to the airplane (reduced useful load) and add one more system that can go wrong and add maintenance cost.

Long range tanks.  Do you really want to sit in the plane for more than 5 or 6 hours without getting out to use a bathroom and walk around a little.  They too add weight and reduce useful load.

252 wingtips.  Look nice but I've heard they don't increase speed.  You might get a little speed by moving the VOR antenna inside but I'm guessing not much.

Round windows.  No speed increase, just aesthetics.  The thicker glass will make it quieter but again, you'll be cutting into useful load.

Doing all that, you could end up losing over 50 pounds of useful load.  If you plan to fly with more than 2 people, that loss of useful load might actually prevent you from filling those long range tanks.

TeeJay mentioned moving the marker beacon antenna inside to increase speed.  I've wondered about that antenna.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the only time you need a marker beacon these days is if you are flying a Category II/III approach, and I don't think any of us are legal to do that.  Are there any approaches left where you need an outer marker?  For Cat I approaches you don't use a middle or inner marker, you fly to a DH.  If that is true, you could probably remove the marker beacon antenna, save a pound or so, and reduce the drag.

You can also increase speed by letting the engine breathe more easily.  Get a Donaldson air filter (vs a Bracket).  Same or less weight and we saw about a 1" increase in MP at cruise.  That means more available power/speed at cruise.  And if you have money to burn, you could add a powerflow exhaust.

Best of luck,

Bob

[Piloto]

Long range tanks not only provides long distance flight but fuel for the return trip in case there is no fuel at destination or it is too expensive, like flying to Bermuda, no AVGAS there.

José

[TWinter]

I'd buy something already done if you can find one. Dollar for dollar and mod for mod there aren't many that will really make that much of a difference. Long range tank..yes!

For speed and even though we are talking airplanes, the old saying from hot rod days comes to mind.

 "No Replacement for Displacement"..

 

-Tom

[DonMuncy]

1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said:

 

Speed brakes.  Like Don said, nice to have but not needed.  If ATC needs me down quicker than I can make it without speedbrakes, my answer is simply 'unable'.  If I'm VFR I can put the gear down for a rapid descent.  Speedbrakes also add weight to the airplane (reduced useful load) and add one more system that can go wrong and add maintenance cost.

 

I just had a malfunction of my speed brakes, and sent them back to the manufacturer for repair. The shipping weight was 9 pounds, including the packing materials. I am virtually certain they have not been worked on since installation in 1997. I anticipate $600 to $700 in cost. So $50 per year and about 9 pounds.

[DonMuncy]

Thinking further; how would one do W&B on a paint job. Do the paint guys get the ingredient list of the paint and subtract out the solvents. Or do the aviation paint manufacturers publish the (after application) weight of their paint. And how would you calculate how much is lost in overspray. Just my musings.

[M20F]

M20 Turbo or RayJay added to a M20J is going to blow the doors off of just about anything short of an Acclaim or an Ovation down low.  

Cost wise you could make it work financially the right J. 

[bcwiseguy]

All, thanks for the insight.

Initially I was leaning towards the 252 route so I could make use of the extra MP and speed increase above 10k but now I am leaning more towards the 201. I flew an E model for 5 years so I am comfortable with a non-turbo and flying below 11k. I definitely hear everyone about the lack of value of many of the mods. I am looking at some late 70's J models that would need to be brought up-to-date in some areas but I'm certainly not opposed to foregoing speed mods or certain cosmetic changes. It sounds like speed brakes may be one of those options along with some of the other options. I definitely want the long range tanks. My wife and I go on trips alot and we have family scattered around the country. As well, we want to be able to fly to some of the caribbean islands.

Whatever I buy I will be keeping for a very long time so as long as I get a long-term value out of whatever upgrades I put into it I will be happy.

Speaking of interior, I know leather is popular but does it have a signficant weight penalty compared to a fabric interior? I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of leather...it is hot when the weather is hot and cold when the weather is cold. It does LOOK good though.

Also, any recommendations concerning avionics upgrades? There is a variety when it comes to 201 for sale...some have upgraded avionics to some extent whereas others are the original equipment. I am leaning towards buying something less expensive with original avionics and just having it upgraded how I want. I know it's a big capital investment but I would assume that long-term, it would be a good investment? Anyone have experience doing just such a thing?

 

[ArtVandelay]

Leather is pretty thin, so fairly lightweight.

First, make sure you have a good engine monitor.

Then a WAAS GPS will allow you to do LPV approaches that are so popular at small GA airports.

ADSB gives you weather and traffic, plus it's required for 2020.

[Oldguy]

Teejay has some good thoughts. I completely agree on the monitor being #1. Without it, all of the other neat avionics might sit while the engine is being overhauled earlier than it should.

If you want a perspective on the extended range tanks, 201er has some discussions on his travels to the Caribbean, long flights and the like.

For me, my '84 J has the removable rear seats allowing more configurable cargo space. I have a cloth interior from a previous owner. Down here in Alabama I am not sure it makes much difference as hot is hot no matter leather or cloth. If you are really concerned about heat or cold, sheepskins could be an answer. 

The one piece belly might add a knot or so, but if you really want to grab some extra speed, see if the LoPresti cowl is still available in the parts section. Extra knots plus looks really cool!

[Bennett]

Teejay has some good thoughts. I completely agree on the monitor being #1. Without it, all of the other neat avionics might sit while the engine is being overhauled earlier than it should.

If you want a perspective on the extended range tanks, 201er has some discussions on his travels to the Caribbean, long flights and the like.

For me, my '84 J has the removable rear seats allowing more configurable cargo space. I have a cloth interior from a previous owner. Down here in Alabama I am not sure it makes much difference as hot is hot no matter leather or cloth. If you are really concerned about heat or cold, sheepskins could be an answer. 

The one piece belly might add a knot or so, but if you really want to grab some extra speed, see if the LoPresti cowl is still available in the parts section. Extra knots plus looks really cool!

For the last few days LoPresti has had one of their cowls for sale at a 25% discount.

[bcwiseguy]

3 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Leather is pretty thin, so fairly lightweight.

First, make sure you have a good engine monitor.

Then a WAAS GPS will allow you to do LPV approaches that are so popular at small GA airports.

ADSB gives you weather and traffic, plus it's required for 2020.

Deejay, I hear you on the engine monitoring. On my E model, the first thing I did for my panel was have an Engine Bar Graph Analyzer installed. One of the things I want for my panel this time around is the JPI EDM-900. In addition, I am looking at Garmin suite with the GTN750, GTC225, GTX345, and GMA340. That will give me WAAS GPS & ADS-B.

[bcwiseguy]

1 hour ago, Bennett said:

For the last few days LoPresti has had one of their cowls for sale at a 25% discount.

Any idea on what the LoPresti cowl costs?

[Bennett]

You should be able to find current pricing on the LoPresti website. I think list was about 17K.

[M20F]

Somebody on here has the LoPresti Cowl if memory serves and it really didn't do much if I recall correctly. 

[Bennett]

Somebody on here has the LoPresti Cowl if memory serves and it really didn't do much if I recall correctly. 

I disagree that it doesn't do much. I think that those of us have have this excellently developed cowl have an appreciation for its features. The Ram Air box alone is a worthwhile feature, and I see a bit over 1 and a quarter inch increase in MP at 8000'.

[carusoam]

Didn't do much... Put into context...

Designed and built by Lopresti.  The same Lopresti that turned the F into the more aerodynamic J.

The first Lopresti was an engineer working for Mooney.

The second Lopresti was an older more refined engineer running his own company.

Pretty amazing talented fellow.  Able to get things done where other people just weren't.

Best regards,

-a-