695, 696 or an IPad

[FlyDave]

OK, so I'm getting closer to a decision but am looking for additional points of view.

Would you choose a 69x over an IPad or vice versa and why?

My observations:

• 
  
• 69x is dedicated platform and known not to crash
  
• XM Weather available on 696
  
• Plates, procedures and Low altitude En-Route available on both
  
• Planning easier on IPad (but I use fltplan.com for planning and filing anyway)
  
• 69x is an excellent GPS in the cockpit
  
• IPad has many aviation apps available
  
• 69x is only an in-cockpit device (unless you can convice me otherwise)
  
• IPad provides internet access for planning and some weather at lower altitudes
  
• VFR sectionals/terminals available on IPad
  
• IPad is known to shut down in high heat environments and I live in southern California
  
• IPad's screen not readable in portrait mode with polarized sunglasses
  
• IPad a little too large to mount on pilot side yoke in Mooney, 69x a little smaller/better fit
  

I'm sure there are others so please list your additional pro's and con's and why you choose what you choose.

[flight2000]

GEO Referencing and crossfill capability with my G430W is what has me going for the 696 in addition to everything you listed. 

IPAD may have Geo Referencing, but I haven't heard anything on its reliability yet. Especially at higher altitudes away from the 3G network.

I can just as easily use the iPhone with the same apps that are available in the iPad...

Brian

[Immelman]

I have not flown with the 696 so I can't offer any insight there, but I have used an ipad for all charts (VFR/IFR/sectional) since May and have not looked back.

The key value proposition for the garmin would be in-flight weather. There are some ipad solutions there (SkyRadar, requires separate ADS-B receiver), but they are in their infancy.

[Jeff_S]

Well, you've summarized nicely the differences between them. The main drawback I see at this point is that there is no easy solution for weather on the iPad, so if inflight weather is your biggest concern (and if you don't have it, you DO want it) then the iPad isn't currently the best solution for you.

However, if you already have in-flight weather and are looking for a better, bigger in-flight EFB, I don't think you can beat the iPad, in particular in combo with ForeFlight. This duo gives you access to all AF/D info, all charts (including geo-referenced VFR and IFR charts), excellent pre-flight planning with full weather briefings and filing capabilities, etc.

The GPS has always worked for me in-flight, although sometimes it is a little slow in finding position. This is not a real problem since I intend it only as backup to my 480/MX20 panel, but if accurate GPS is an issue then you will be happy to know that ForeFlight has just endorsed two external GPS antenna options that work flawlessly and provide much more precise location. Because of this, ForeFlight has decided to add geo-referencing to approach plates (and hopefully taxi diagrams, which is all I really want). Read about that here:

http://blog.foreflight.com/2010/11/09/external-ipad-gps-receivers-for-foreflight-hd/

[carusoam]

I have the 90's version.

Primary: KLN 90B - IFR GPS - Old, most reliable, allows me to file /G

Secondary: Garmin 196 - Old, reliable, but still works well with updated charts, still supported by Garmin.

Tertiary: I-Pad - Quick easy situational awareness - most complex, least reliable, but most information at a finger tip.

Quaternary: Paper, often printed from a government web site, or purchased.

Updated for Today: G430 (/G filing), G696 or Aera? (weather and reliable back-up), I-Pad (cheap chart updates and preflight filing), Something for traffic?...

If you already have a portable aviation GPS, than the I-Pad makes sense for all of the low cost information that it supplies.

I couldn't vote...The answer is not as simple as pick one...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[FlyDave]

Quote: carusoam

I have the 90's version.

Primary: KLN 90B - IFR GPS - Old, most reliable, allows me to file /G

Secondary: Garmin 196 - Old, reliable, but still works well with updated charts, still supported by Garmin.

Tertiary: I-Pad - Quick easy situational awareness - most complex, least reliable, but most information at a finger tip.

Quaternary: Paper, often printed from a government web site, or purchased.

Updated for Today: G430 (/G filing), G696 or Aera? (weather and reliable back-up), I-Pad (cheap chart updates and preflight filing), Something for traffic?...

If you already have a portable aviation GPS, than the I-Pad makes sense for all of the low cost information that it supplies.

I couldn't vote...The answer is not as simple as pick one...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[tbrickey]

This summer I purchased an Anywhere Map Duo with gps position, IFR plates, and weather.  The duo is a windows 7 based portable p.c. that has a seven inch touch screen.  I selected the duo because it has a significantly lower price for updates.  The biggest issues I have are the touch screen can be difficult to hit the sweet spot while bouncing, and the weather reciever really prefers a southern exposure for signal strength.

[Barry]

I feel your pain. I really like my anywhere except for the fact that it is hard to see on a bright day. The Wx receiver is a problem with any system where you put the antenna on the dash. It is easly blocked by the airframe when heading north. It appers to be more of an issue the farther north you go ... makes sense. The gadget they sell to keep the antenna mounted toward the very top of the windscreen works pretty well, however. Love the geo-referencing, TAWS, and XM WX on the IFR plates !!

[carusoam]

Dave,

Ken Reed supplied photos and part numbers for an IPad on a Ram Mount.  I have been unable to find it.  It's here somewhere....

He gave all the details...

Updates on the IPad.....(what sticks in my mind anyway - still requires proof of details)....

[1] The lowest cost I-Pad probably covers all of your needs. 

[2] The memory requirement for the complete set of US charts doesn't seem to be that much.

[3] An external GPS device has been identified by foreflight that is equal or better than the GPS supplied with the most expensive IPad.  I have yet to try the 3G part of this device.  I still carry a phone with me.

[4] I have the most expensive Ipad and it has worked well on long cross countries at 12,000 feet.

[5] I am using WingX Pro.  I do not recommend WingX Pro for IPad at this time.  It is not done yet.  It is missing all MEA data, ADFs, and a couple of other details.  I bought it because its presentation of ground proximity and promise of Geo referenced IAPs (as Barry described above).  It does have safe taxi and shows where you are on the ground.  I will be adding foreflight or skycharts to supply the back up data to my back up system.......

[6] there is also a reference to a USB style power supply here somewhere that plugs into the cigarette lighter.  If the flight is long enough that you stop for fuel, you may run out of battery power on your Ipad.

[7] I think that covers all of the latest what should I get with my IPad questions.....

-a-

[KLRDMD]

Quote: FlyDave

IPad a little too large to mount on pilot side yoke in Mooney

[KLRDMD]

Quote: FlyDave

[Sabremech]

My wife and I just completed a long cross country with our new ipad and the Foreflight app. We had no troubles and it tracked us with the internal GPS the whole trip. We have a Garmin 496 with XM weather to cover the weather and terrain. it's my understanding the subscriptions for all of the features on the 696 are quite pricey. The Foreflight app was $75 for the year and has the sectionals and the approach plates plus so much more.

 Since I have a 496. the Ipad is the best bang for the buck in my opinion and will only get better at probably a third of what the 696 costs.

[docket]

I like the 696 because it gets the flight plan from the 530 so the course it is depicting is always current.  That is pretty helpful in IFR.  I used to use a Fujitsu 1630 with Flightprep but when they were changing runways or doing something near the end of the flight it was too much hassle to enter the new waypoint twice.  Plus I like the terrain alert and altitude alert that the 696 gives.  The 696 always calls out 500 feet before the landing which is nice when you are heading to minimums.  If money is no object, its 696 for me.

[eldeano]

I opted for a Garmin Aera for xm and yoke mount, and the IPad for charts and plates. I also purchased a kneeboard for the ipad. It has a clipboard that folds over the ipad. An antiglare screen protector is a must. Air Guide publications just came out with a great app for charts and plates airport info etc. and are coming out with geo ref from an external blutooth GPS.(ipad gps is a little funky sometimes.) I like the ipad for IFR because you can read the fine print on those plates that will keep you from getting burned. Alaska airline pilots are now being given ipads!!

I would think it is only a matter of time before someone comes out with a xm receiver for the ipad as well.

696 was a little large for my 63 m20c so I opted for the aera. 696 is pretty sweet though but upgrading the databases can get pricey.

Full disclosure: I have totally swallowed the Steve Jobs coolaide !

Hope this helps

[lahso]

Quote: Sabremech

...We have a Garmin 496 with XM weather to cover the weather and terrain.

...Since I have a 496. the Ipad is the best bang for the buck in my opinion and will only get better at probably a third of what the 696 costs.

[KLRDMD]

I made some Black Friday purchases yesterday:

Currently, my EFB of choice is the iPad (64 GB, 3G) $829.

I'm running SkyCharts Pro. That gives me VFR sectionals, IFR low enroute charts and Terminal Area Charts, all geo-referenced. It also gives me approach plates (not geo-refernced, see next item) and the AFD. $19.99/year.

Yesterday I bought the lifetime chart data for the iPad from Seattle Avionics. This gives me approach plates and airport diagrams, both geo-referenced, to be used with your choice of apps for the iPad. (WingX, Beacon or SkyRadar) $299.

Then I downloaded SkyRadar (30 day free trial, I will buy it, it will be $26.99/year.

Finally, I bought the SkyRadar ADS-B receiver. $1,199.

I'll have under $2,400 in the entire setup, $600 less than what a Garmin 696 currently sells for.

And I have the functionality of the iPad that I use literally every day for non-aviation purposes.

And I'll not be paying a penny extra for weather. That's $54.99 per month ($659.88) extra on the 696.

And I'll be getting traffic for no additional fees (I understand the limitations). That's a $1,575 option (Zaon) on the 696.

One year with the iPad setup = $2373.98
One year with the 696 setup = $5233.88

Amortized three year cost with the iPad setup = $2467.94 ($823/yr)
Amortized three year cost with the 696 setup = $6553.64 ($2185/yr)

[FlyDave]

Quote: KLRDMD

I made some Black Friday purchases yesterday:

Currently, my EFB of choice is the iPad (64 GB, 3G) $829.

I'm running SkyCharts Pro. That gives me VFR sectionals, IFR low enroute charts and Terminal Area Charts, all geo-referenced. It also gives me approach plates (not geo-refernced, see next item) and the AFD. $19.99/year.

Yesterday I bought the lifetime chart data for the iPad from Seattle Avionics. This gives me approach plates and airport diagrams, both geo-referenced, to be used with your choice of apps for the iPad. (WingX, Beacon or SkyRadar) $299.

Then I downloaded SkyRadar (30 day free trial, I will buy it, it will be $26.99/year.

Finally, I bought the SkyRadar ADS-B receiver. $1,199.

I'll have under $2,400 in the entire setup, $600 less than what a Garmin 696 currently sells for.

And I have the functionality of the iPad that I use literally every day for non-aviation purposes.

And I'll not be paying a penny extra for weather. That's $54.99 per month ($659.88) extra on the 696.

And I'll be getting traffic for no additional fees (I understand the limitations). That's a $1,575 option (Zaon) on the 696.

One year with the iPad setup = $2373.98

One year with the 696 setup = $5233.88

Amortized three year cost with the iPad setup = $2467.94 ($823/yr)

Amortized three year cost with the 696 setup = $6553.64 ($2185/yr)

[Igor_U]

Quote: KLRDMD

 

                    RAM-HOL-AP8U

 

                    Apple Cradle RAM-HOL-AP8U for iPad (1st Generation)

 

                    1

 

                    $29.75

 

                    $29.75

 

                    RAP-B-121-202U

 

                    Universal C Base Clamp Base with Standard Arm and Universal Round Plate

 

                    1

 

                    $28.10

 

                    $28.10

 

                     

 

                   

[jlunseth]

I have a panel mounted 430AW and MX20 moving map, and just bought the iPad.  I bought the iPad for preflight planning and to relieve myself of having to carry 15-20 lbs. of charts in the airplane.  I am probably still going to carry Sectionals, or some Sectionals, because for a trip over a long distance I like being able to see ahead.

I did not buy the iPad for any inflight operations that involve getting data of some kind, such as sat wx, or getting a GPS location.  For operations where your life depends on it, such as IFR, I am going to stick with the tried and true stuff.  And the reviews I have read on the iPad indicate that the GPS is not the best or most reliable.  But for pre-flight planning and particularly for approach plates, it is really great. 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: jlunseth

I have a panel mounted 430AW and MX20 moving map, and just bought the iPad.  I bought the iPad for preflight planning and to relieve myself of having to carry 15-20 lbs. of charts in the airplane.  I am probably still going to carry Sectionals, or some Sectionals, because for a trip over a long distance I like being able to see ahead. I did not buy the iPad for any inflight operations that involve getting data of some kind, such as sat wx, or getting a GPS location.  For operations where your life depends on it, such as IFR, I am going to stick with the tried and true stuff.  And the reviews I have read on the iPad indicate that the GPS is not the best or most reliable.  But for pre-flight planning and particularly for approach plates, it is really great. 

[Igor_U]

Ken,

Could you comment about the clearance you have with this yoke clamp at the full forward yoke (nose down)? Is your LH yoke original?

I fly ’67 F-Type  as well and had minor issue with Lawrence and major with Kin AV8R clamp (couldn’t use it at all) doe to clearance issues. This clamp looks slim enough that it might work but firsthand knowledge would help.

 

Regards,

 Igor

'67F @ KPAE

[KLRDMD]

Quote: Igor_U

Could you comment about the clearance you have with this yoke clamp at the full forward yoke (nose down)? Is your LH yoke original?