I'm a 1st time Mooney buyer - HELP

[Jeship]

Hello Mooney Forum , I've been lurking here for a few weeks and based on this community, I've decided to buy a Mooney!!  I have a general aviation background, military aviation background, and I am currently an airline pilot.  The last plane I owned was a 1972 Baron 58. I sold it 4 years ago and have not flown a small plane since. I'm ready to get back in it, and I can't wait. Now, what I'm looking for and to spend. I have 140k that I can spend. I've read up on the "Missile" and it seems like the best fit for me? I seen them for sale at what seems a reasonable price with nice Garmin package (GNS 430 & 530). Most of the flying I'll be doing is 600 miles or less, in the lower altitudes (below 14k). I'm a regular size guy, with a 5 yr old who loves planes as much as me, haha. So, most of the travel I'll be doing will be with him. I will base it out of Atanta, KFTY (Fulton Co -Charlie Brown) OK, Mooney Forum, what are your thoughts? I'm ALL EARS. Thanks in advance for your time :-)

Blue Skies!

Jeff

[Mooneymite]

Hi, Jeff.  Welcome to Mooneyspace.  There are quite a few Mooney owners in the Atlanta area.  I'll PM you the contact info for a fellow who keeps a list...if I can find it.  Our group used to be fairly active, but not so much any more.  In any case you can use the contact info as you see fit.

The picture you posted appears to be in a 737-200 sim?  I thought those were all gone now.  The captain is a lot younger than I remember them, but at my age, everyone seems younger.  

Good luck in your Mooneyquest.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Jeff.

Synthetic Vision in the instrument  panel may be a good idea for your Captain's shortcoming...

A good booster seat may be a lower cost solution depending on our budget.

Missiles are greatly appreciated by their owners.  Their IO550 engine produces 300hp in their J airframes.

Good luck with your search.

Best regards,

-a-

[Jeship]

 Thanks for the advice a. I'm now also considering a 252 vs the missile. Ughhhh, decisions decisions haha

[carusoam]

Some of the most interesting technical discussions around here are regarding the engine operations of the various turbo engines and their hardware.  Turbos, inter-coolers, and controllers.  Throw in LOP, TIT and MP...  There is a lot of reading available from actual pilots.

Best regards,

-a-

[GeorgePerry]

Jeff

welcome...Lots of great info on this sight.  But to summarize.  If flying below 14K most of the time, it's probably best to stick with a normally aspirated engine.  If you need 4 Seats skip the "E".  As for speed, "F" is fast.  "J" is faster, "S" is faster still, "Missile" and "R" are the fastest of the NA breed.  Each has useful load trade offs that you'll also want to consider.  If your just getting into Mooney's and you want the "best" all around plane for the money, you can't go wrong with a "J".  If speed is your ultimate goal, then you'll want to look at S, R or Missile options.  Each has pro's and cons.  If you'd like to talk off line, shoot me a PM and we can connect.

George

[Oldguy]

Jeff,

I have to agree with George about the plane options as your mission sounds close to why I got my J. Less than 600 nm and under any O2 requirements for two people with a third or fourth for the occasional 1+ flight to the beach. Unfortunately, I'm not a regular size guy at 6'5", but still fit comfortably for the 3+ hour flights over to Texas to see family.

Being based out of KPLR in Pell City, AL, we go into KFTY regularly to avoid driving in Atlanta traffic. Nice airport.

But you've hit the right spot to ask your questions. We love to help people spend their money on Mooneys!

John

[Seth]

Jeff-

I echo George's comments.  I previously owned an M20F and now have a M20J Missile.  George previously owned and an M20F and now owns an M20S (Eagle).

The Missile is the only bird that is truly modified on your list - and that's a big reason the pricing falls where it does.  

The J is really the most economical of the bunch, as long as 155 knots all day is okay with you.  For my mission at the time, making my jump from my fast relatively unmodified M20F at 148knots all day, I decided to jump to a Missile instead of a stock M20J.  There is a Missile thread right now regarding the pros and cons, but the cons are greater fuel burn, heavier nose, and potential later resale (small market for Missile, only 40ish ever converted).  Otherwise, it's a heck of a buy for the cost vs performance.  If 155 knots all day is okay for you, go with a 200 HP J model, potentially the best normally aspirated Mooney produced.  If you are going to normally be under 14k, you probably do not need the turbo.

The M20S Eagle and M20R ovation are the long body Mooney's.  However, price wise you may be hitting the upper end of your range with the M20S Eagle and the Ovation is a bit higher.

An F Model does almost everything the J model does for 10 knots and $30k less.  Usually, there are better panels in the J model, and there's a lot of small differences.  I'd go M20J over M20F at this point after flying both airframes should the funds be available.

Also, you know this from flying a Baron, but 10% of your purchase price without question will go into upgrades or unexpected maintenance in the first year of ownership.

**If it helps at all, I was debating 252 vs Missile when I purchased the Missile in 2011.  I had a prebuy done on a 252 and passed.  For me, I picked the correct combination for my mission which was flights staying below 12,000 more often.  I do have portable O2 for when there are great tailwinds up high heading back home (East Coast) but I've only gone high less than 20 times.  The performance speed of a Missile down low beats 231's and some 252's.  They start to pull ahead in the low teens.  Same goes for a stock J vs a 231 - the J will have better initial climb and speed down low.  The 231 will win after a few thousand feed.  But the Missile had an extra 100 HP over the stock J, and thus, down low, the Missile wins performance wise.  You can also dial a Missile back to J speeds and almost J fuel burn (within 1 GPH) but it's hard to slow down when you get addicted to speed.  Same could be said for the M20R Ovation and M20S Eagle.

Take care and PM anytime,

 

-Seth

 

 

 

[Seth]

25 minutes ago, GeorgePerry said:

Jeff

welcome...Lots of great info on this sight.  But to summarize.  If flying below 14K most of the time, it's probably best to stick with a normally aspirated engine.  If you need 4 Seats skip the "E".  As for speed, "F" is fast.  "J" is faster, "S" is faster still, "Missile" and "M" are the fastest of the NA breed.  Each has useful load trade offs that you'll also want to consider.  If your just getting into Mooney's and you want the "best" all around plane for the money, you can't go wrong with a "J".  If speed is your ultimate goal, then you'll want to look at S, M or Missile options.  Each has pro's and cons.  If you'd like to talk off line, shoot me a PM and we can connect.

George

George meant R for the fasted of the NA breed. 

M= Bravo (turbo) long body

R= Ovation (Normally aspirated) long body

[bonal]

Welcome Jeff, based on your information and that you are looking for a Mooney to fly lower and not so far you might ask yourself this question. Do I want an airplane that I fly like the one at work or do I want something that is just plane fun. I agree the J would be ideal but consider a modified E short body. When I have talked to owners of the big Mooney's they all tell me that the speed is great for the mission but how much they miss the fun of the short body. From all that I have read an E with some speed mods moves and climbs fast and if you really want that Mooney experience you have to fly the Johnson bar. Good luck with you return to GA.

[ArtVandelay]

If you have a 140k to spend, I'd put 40k into the bank for first year maintenance and upgrades, a 100k will get you a nice J, which in my biased opinion is the sweet spot, big enough to carry 4 comfortably depending on weight, efficient, no turbo and 4 cylinders makes it reasonably inexpensive to maintain.

[DonMuncy]

Everybody here is giving good advice. Ultimately, you take all the advice into consideration, and jump whichever way tickles your fancy. Unless you are very unusual, you will be extremely happy with your choice.

[manoflamancha]

252 or Bravo is way I would go and thats what I am looking at right now as well.

[Jeship]

3 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Hi, Jeff.  Welcome to Mooneyspace.  There are quite a few Mooney owners in the Atlanta area.  I'll PM you the contact info for a fellow who keeps a list...if I can find it.  Our group used to be fairly active, but not so much any more.  In any case you can use the contact info as you see fit.

The picture you posted appears to be in a 737-200 sim?  I thought those were all gone now.  The captain is a lot younger than I remember them, but at my age, everyone seems younger.  

Good luck in your Mooneyquest.

Yes, they are all gone. This was taken in the Delta museum. It's a full motion sim they have there. You can rent it for around 400 bucks an hour, but you can sit in it for free, lol (which is what we were doing). Yes, it's a very young captain. He's get all the girls! ;-)

[Jeship]

41 minutes ago, manoflamancha said:

252 or Bravo is way I would go and thats what I am looking at right now as well.

I'm now looking at 252 or Missile. Seth's post has me leaning towards Missle 

[Jeship]

2 hours ago, Seth said:

Jeff-

I echo George's comments.  I previously owned an M20F and now have a M20J Missile.  George previously owned and an M20F and now owns an M20S (Eagle).

The Missile is the only bird that is truly modified on your list - and that's a big reason the pricing falls where it does.  

The J is really the most economical of the bunch, as long as 155 knots all day is okay with you.  For my mission at the time, making my jump from my fast relatively unmodified M20F at 148knots all day, I decided to jump to a Missile instead of a stock M20J.  There is a Missile thread right now regarding the pros and cons, but the cons are greater fuel burn, heavier nose, and potential later resale (small market for Missile, only 40ish ever converted).  Otherwise, it's a heck of a buy for the cost vs performance.  If 155 knots all day is okay for you, go with a 200 HP J model, potentially the best normally aspirated Mooney produced.  If you are going to normally be under 14k, you probably do not need the turbo.

The M20S Eagle and M20R ovation are the long body Mooney's.  However, price wise you may be hitting the upper end of your range with the M20S Eagle and the Ovation is a bit higher.

An F Model does almost everything the J model does for 10 knots and $30k less.  Usually, there are better panels in the J model, and there's a lot of small differences.  I'd go M20J over M20F at this point after flying both airframes should the funds be available.

Also, you know this from flying a Baron, but 10% of your purchase price without question will go into upgrades or unexpected maintenance in the first year of ownership.

**If it helps at all, I was debating 252 vs Missile when I purchased the Missile in 2011.  I had a prebuy done on a 252 and passed.  For me, I picked the correct combination for my mission which was flights staying below 12,000 more often.  I do have portable O2 for when there are great tailwinds up high heading back home (East Coast) but I've only gone high less than 20 times.  The performance speed of a Missile down low beats 231's and some 252's.  They start to pull ahead in the low teens.  Same goes for a stock J vs a 231 - the J will have better initial climb and speed down low.  The 231 will win after a few thousand feed.  But the Missile had an extra 100 HP over the stock J, and thus, down low, the Missile wins performance wise.  You can also dial a Missile back to J speeds and almost J fuel burn (within 1 GPH) but it's hard to slow down when you get addicted to speed.  Same could be said for the M20R Ovation and M20S Eagle.

Take care and PM anytime,

 

-Seth

 

 

 

Thank for the great info Seth. I am now considering 252 or Missile. Your post really helps!! If you see any "good deal" on either, please forward. THANKS!! :-)

[N33GG]

Welcome Jeff!  I have flown most of the Mooney models, and must confess the worst I ever flew was wonderful.

I owned a Baron 58TC before I bought my first Mooney M20J.  Later had a C model.  In my opinion, the 252 is about the best match between airframe and engine, and that model had all the refinements to make it one of my favorite aircraft.  If I had found one when I was shopping, I would probably still have it, as a good 252 would definately be a keeper.

But then again, there are really no wrong answers.

Good luck with your quest!

[Guest]

I'd suggest that you work on some ratings  before considering a Mooney, they're really hard to fly.  An instrument rating, followed a multi rating then by an ATPL.  If you can get some Boeing time that should get you ready for the blistering speed of a Mooney, also if you can "borrow" the airline credit card from time to time you'll move to the head of the CB club!

Clarence

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

....... before considering a Mooney, they're really hard to fly.  .......

Absolutely true!  All Mooney pilots are exceptional pilots with incredible insight into all things aviation.  Average pilots fly other makes and models.  

[jwilcoxon78]

Jeship, I'm at KCNI with a J model if you'd like to get a feel for one.  I'd say that a J model would fit your needs with some better economy if that's a concern.  Engine's cheaper to maintain and fuel burn is laughable.  The gentlemen that I bought my J from was stepping up to a 252.

 

[Yetti]

They are not hard to fly maybe you people need to up your skilz.  Next you are going to tell me they are hard to land and the only way to land them is flying around the pattern with full flaps

Edited March 30, 2016 by Yetti

[rbridges]

Bravoman is based out of PDK, and surprisingly owns a Bravo.  I fly up to KRYY occasionally to see my daughter.  As Gus said, there are several people in the metro Atlanta area.  I just can't recall any 252 or missile owners off the top of my head.

[Seth]

Jeff-

I will be in town at PDK on June 10th - June 12th with my Missile.  As my schedule firms up for the weekend I'll see if we can get some time to fly in you in the Missile.  This is all of course if weather works, scheduling works, no maintenance surprises, you name it.  Flexibility helps!

-Seth

[WilliamR]

Jeship, I keep a 252 at FFC if you are interested in checking in out.  It's not for sale, but ..... wait .... everything I own is for sale at the right price. Ha!

I will be out there Sun after lunch to fly it and change the oil.  I can be generally around on the weekends otherwise.

Where did you keep your 58? FTY?

William

[Mooneymite]

22 hours ago, Yetti said:

They are not hard to fly.....

Heresy!   The only people who can fly Mooneys are superhumans who are also pilots.