IFR Cert

[ltdoyle]

I recently moved from an E model to a 201.  Anyway, time for an IFR cert. I had a guy I used before.  He comes to  my hangar.  This day, it was pretty cold when he and his son showed up and started hooking everything up to the plane.  I ran off the restroom for a few minutes.  When I came back, he was putting everything back in his car.  Surprised, I said "done?" .  He said no, you have a massive static leak, so I can't do it.  I had just had a Navworx ADS-B installed recently, so thought, hmmm, maybe they knocked something loose.  I started out looking under the dash, (not looking forward to pulling the side panels off again.) The first thing I noticed was the alternate static valve about half way out.  By then, the guy had left, and I haven't had any luck getting back with him.  To his benefit, he did not charge me. Anyway, so I don't know if that was the problem, or if I do have a leak.  I know that when flying, I can pull the alternate static valve and see about a 80' difference immediately. 

Looking to see who in the south Dallas area that you would recommend for an IFR Cert....

Edited March 24, 2016 by ltdoyle
spelling

[carusoam]

ITD,

That's a long way to go to ask a simple question.

you may want to edit the thread title to get your point earlier on.

'IFR Cert in S. Dallas area' might get you a better response.

There are a couple of MSers around Redbird that may be helpful.  Like Don, below...

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

I'd question why the guy came out and when finding a minor problem he would not even bother doing the basics.

Clarence

[DonMuncy]

Try Wriston Aviation 214 212-0499

[N33GG]

I used to use FieldTech at Meachem, but it has been several years.  No current experience.

[1524J]

4 hours ago, ltdoyle said:

I recently moved from an E model to a 201.  Anyway, time for an IFR cert. I had a guy I used before.  He comes to  my hangar.  This day, it was pretty cold when he and his son showed up and started hooking everything up to the plane.  I ran off the restroom for a few minutes.  When I came back, he was putting everything back in his car.  Surprised, I said "done?" .  He said no, you have a massive static leak, so I can't do it.  I had just had a Navworx ADS-B installed recently, so thought, hmmm, maybe they knocked something loose.  I started out looking under the dash, (not looking forward to pulling the side panels off again.) The first thing I noticed was the alternate static valve about half way out.  By then, the guy had left, and I haven't had any luck getting back with him.  To his benefit, he did not charge me. Anyway, so I don't know if that was the problem, or if I do have a leak.  I know that when flying, I can pull the alternate static valve and see about a 80' difference immediately. 

Looking to see who in the south Dallas area that you would recommend for an IFR Cert....

Itdoyle, you've got an airplane....don't limit yourself to such a small area. I used Ezell out of Breckenridge. They'll let you peruse through the shop full of WWII planes while your there. Worth the trip even if you don't need your IFR cert. $350 for the cert.

[bradp]

The first year I had my J it failed it's static check.  Some dude out in California charged me for the check but didn't offer any hints at diagnosis other than his hourly rate to inquire further.  Okay... Got far away from that guy.     

So to troubleshoot took a piece of duct tape to block one of the ports (remember to remove) and at the other port used a suction cup of the same diameter as the static port attached to a 3cc syringe with some iV tubing and a 3-way stopcock between the auction cup and the syringe.  Then you can use a *very* slow and gentle back pressure to pull a slight negative pressure in the system.   Remember that each inch of mercury equates to a movement of 1000ft on the altimeter.  That's about 35cm of pressure.  So if you pull a vacuum of 3.5cm you might expect movement of 100ft.  The point is you can go slow and pull some negative pressure and a if you have a good seal at the port, the static system should hold that negate pressure.  In my case I tracked it down to a busted static drain port, but you can troubleshoot the system this way.  Just don't break anything and don't mess anything up and be very gently with the sensitive instruments. And goes without saying to get the system repaired / recerted... 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, bradp said:

The first year I had my J it failed it's static check.  Some dude out in California charged me for the check but didn't offer any hints at diagnosis other than his hourly rate to inquire further.  Okay... Got far away from that guy.     

So to troubleshoot took a piece of duct tape to block one of the ports (remember to remove) and at the other port used a suction cup of the same diameter as the static port attached to a 3cc syringe with some iV tubing and a 3-way stopcock between the auction cup and the syringe.  Then you can use a *very* slow and gentle back pressure to pull a slight negative pressure in the system.   Remember that each inch of mercury equates to a movement of 1000ft on the altimeter.  That's about 35cm of pressure.  So if you pull a vacuum of 3.5cm you might expect movement of 100ft.  The point is you can go slow and pull some negative pressure and a if you have a good seal at the port, the static system should hold that negate pressure.  In my case I tracked it down to a busted static drain port, but you can troubleshoot the system this way.  Just don't break anything and don't mess anything up and be very gently with the sensitive instruments. And goes without saying to get the system repaired / recerted... 

Old Cessna maintenance manuals show a method of doing pitot static leak test with a pressure bulb from a blood pressure cuff.  I

Clarence

[firefly201]

ltdoyle,

I sent you a PM

[RobertGary1]

The static drain can cause the same problem. I had a similar problem with an inspector. I wiggled the drain and he tested again and all was fine. Most of these guys don't realize we have drains in the Mooney. I later replaced the seal.

Now I always pretest the system myself. Just tape one port off and use a hose to suck on the other port until you see 1000 feet above the field. Hold that for a minute or so (really if the VSI doesn't move you are good). That's basically what they are doing anyway.

-Robert

Edited March 25, 2016 by RobertGary1

[ltdoyle]

Thanks for all of the info!  Turned out it was a sticky static drain.    I cleaned/lubed it and had Paul with PDG came out and certified it for $250

[RobertGary1]

If you want to replace the seal in the drain valve I have the P/N somewhere.

 

-Robert

[Marauder]

And when that seat gets corroded to the point that you can't grind it down anymore. Here is the whole static port number. $127 from Lasar.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TonyK]

I wish I had found and read this thread prior to my cert testing yesterday.  It might have saved me some time and money.  A rusty drain valve with a bad oring and a few other minor  leaks caused a testing failure and now we are headed for day two of "Let's fix the static system" fun.  I should have done a forum search to look for possible issues before I scheduled it but I have been out of airplane ownership for a long time and just spaced it.

[Marauder]

I wish I had found and read this thread prior to my cert testing yesterday.  It might have saved me some time and money.  A rusty drain valve with a bad oring and a few other minor  leaks caused a testing failure and now we are headed for day two of "Let's fix the static system" fun.  I should have done a forum search to look for possible issues before I scheduled it but I have been out of airplane ownership for a long time and just spaced it.

  Tony - I will make you feel better. I went to well known avionics shop in my area to uncover why ATC repeatedly reminded me that I was 200' off my IFR flight plan. 

The shop was asked to check my Aspen, backup altimeter and blind encoder just to verify if they were off. I had dropped off the plane and went for a coffee. When I stopped back an hour later, they literally had taken my static system apart claiming there was a leak. They replaced the O rings in the alternate air valve and supposedly fixed a leak in the static port. They charged me $750 and when I read my logs they said the leak test was 700 FPM. The limit on a non-pressurized airplane is supposed to be less than 100 FPM. I went back to them (another visit) and they supposedly fixed the leak. I asked why there wasn't an IFR cert since they had taken the entire system apart. They told me what they did was a repair and it would be another $650 to recertify it.

 I was pissed and went to another shop. The next shop found their "fix" to my static system leak -- they couldn't get it to seal with a new O ring so they packed it with grease. Hence, why you see me posting the picture of new static port.

 

I agree, before I have anything done, I come here to see what people know. Good source of information.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

 

 

[bradp]

Makes me thing we should consider curating the good stuff. Come across a good thread we could double list it in a new forum marked "troubleshooting" "diy club" or something like that....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bradp]

Makes me thing we should consider curating the good stuff. Come across a good thread we could double list it in a new forum marked "troubleshooting" "diy club" or something like that....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RobertGary1]

You can pretest it yourself. Tape one side and use some surgical tubing over the other side and gently suck it up to 1,000 feet and ensure it holds. If you still have a leak replace the seal in the static drain valve under the battery. 

-Robert

[slowflyin]

38 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

You can pretest it yourself. Tape one side and use some surgical tubing over the other side and gently suck it up to 1,000 feet and ensure it holds. If you still have a leak replace the seal in the static drain valve under the battery. 

-Robert

 

Is your drain under the battery a push to drain setup?   Just curious as mine is not and it seems not quite correct.

[MBDiagMan]

On March 24, 2016 at 9:28 PM, ltdoyle said:

I recently moved from an E model to a 201.  Anyway, time for an IFR cert. I had a guy I used before.  He comes to  my hangar.  This day, it was pretty cold when he and his son showed up and started hooking everything up to the plane.  I ran off the restroom for a few minutes.  When I came back, he was putting everything back in his car.  Surprised, I said "done?" .  He said no, you have a massive static leak, so I can't do it.  I had just had a Navworx ADS-B installed recently, so thought, hmmm, maybe they knocked something loose.  I started out looking under the dash, (not looking forward to pulling the side panels off again.) The first thing I noticed was the alternate static valve about half way out.  By then, the guy had left, and I haven't had any luck getting back with him.  To his benefit, he did not charge me. Anyway, so I don't know if that was the problem, or if I do have a leak.  I know that when flying, I can pull the alternate static valve and see about a 80' difference immediately. 

Looking to see who in the south Dallas area that you would recommend for an IFR Cert....

I use Laura at Nolan Avionics just over the river in Durant at KDUA.  A short Mooney flight to a very nice airport with a runway like a pool table.

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, slowflyin said:

Is your drain under the battery a push to drain setup?   Just curious as mine is not and it seems not quite correct.

This gives the best description of how it's set up  I usually change the seals before the ifr cert just to avoid what the OP experienced 

http://www.mooney.com/en/sb/M20-167.pdf

-Robert

[thinwing]

Good stuff...the location of the static drain in a Bravo is left wing root...it uses an o ring seal and is push to drain.One of the shops found it leaking and didn't know you accessed thru pilots side upholstery panels.Shop was going to drill out wing root fairing to access it for o ring change!Nope says I...ain't no way!

[Marcopolo]

Thin,

 

  I have the drain in the left wing root also, labeled as pitot system drain, but I also have a drain under the battery labeled as static drain.  Two buttons to push and hope they seal when released!!!

 

Ron

[RobertGary1]

15 minutes ago, thinwing said:

Good stuff...the location of the static drain in a Bravo is left wing root...it uses an o ring seal and is push to drain.One of the shops found it leaking and didn't know you accessed thru pilots side upholstery panels.Shop was going to drill out wing root fairing to access it for o ring change!Nope says I...ain't no way!

Are you sure that's the static drain? Sounds like the pitot drain. Yes, the valve just unscrews and you replace the 30 cent seal.

 

-Robert

[thinwing]

I have that too Marco...the aft compartment  is pretty obvious of how to access...it's that left wing root one that non Mooney tech s can get hung up on access...the shop I used at the time were actually going to drill out all those wing fillet rivets to access it from outside!