Help setting up Mooney flight sim

[Matt Michael]

I'm looking for guidance/assistance in configuring a basic home computer flight simulator for IFR practice. I don't care about hi res graphics or realism as much as being able to build a panel that matches the panel in my 66E.

I'm thinking of the Carenado M20J  running in MS FS2004 for example. I have a CH yoke, Saitek pedals, and a laptop with discrete graphics card.

I'm confused about how to go about custom building an instrument panel to more or less match the layout and functionality of my real one (standard 6 pack, G430, Stec 30...) I gather that it can be done but I'm not sure which software would be the easiest to work with or compatible with which flight sim. Trying to figure it out is starting to make my brain hurt.

I don't really want to spend a ton of money. All I really need to do is practice approaches but, if it's not too difficult to set up something with interactive ATC and linked to Foreflight I might be willing to shell out a few more real dollars.  

I have searched the forums and read various posts but haven't quite been able to stitch together the bits and pieces of info into a coherent guide. Hopefully someone who has already done what I'm trying to do will read this, and reply.

Thanks in advance

[StinkBug]

If you find out let me know. That's pretty much the setup I have in my plane as well, minus the A/P, and I'd love to have something that more resembles my own cockpit for practicing approaches. I'm running FSX steam edition on my laptop, with the saitek yoke and levers. 

[carusoam]

I use the Bravo with the steam gauge panel layout.  It is very similar to an early 90s Mooney.  VOR and ILS and Garmin 530 similarities.  The 'Steam' version of FS is a low cost, app available online.  Steam is a company that has software on line. Confusing at first.  Nothing to do with my favorite steam gauges....

Computer used: Lowest cost machine from Costco.  Around 0.4AMU.  Graphics are good enough to make your brain think it is looking through a window at the world outside....

The power settings are similar to the MAPA recommendations...  Really good for NAV radio work.

What would be nice....  NA IO550 engine...  With proper power management.

What's missing...  

1) The flaps/trim relationship is more Cessna than Mooney.  

2) Turning off the AP causes a nose-up flair at a few hundred ft off the ground.  Takes some additional prep to get that correct.

Some issues are caused by me using a keyboard to fly and not a yoke system.

Best regards,

-a-

[Raptor05121]

Carousam, having been in the Flight Sim market for many years with more money in it than my own plane (so far), the default planes you're referring to are very lacking in detail, so don't hold your hopes on them getting any better. There are some companies out there that produce VERY VERY realistic airframes (A2A has a 172, Cherokee, Comanche, 182, etc) that are bar none, the best. Carenado is so-so, with more eye candy and not very realitic handling or components. Not to mention the M20J model is very dated.

[carusoam]

Alex, I'm with you on that!

i have only been using MSFS, First saw it at a friend's house in 1983. I started using it in 1986 on a mono-color screen.  Flying around Chicago wire framed buildings like the simulated Sears tower.  Learned to fly 10 years later. 10 years later IR...

For $400 or so, the MSFS is more procedure trainer than anything.  My Instrument training used a Frasca simulator with more realistic controls and other displays.  The flight simulator aspect was very similar.  Got My C in Y2K.

Since the IR (OP's question) is more about procedures and communication and less learning how to fly a plane.  the MSFS is money well spent.

The Bravo instrument panel is near identical in placement and functionality as my actual plane.  

Where the realism comes in...

Try flying a lot with the sim, skip using the check lists, see how long or much stress it takes to generate a GU landing.   

I was surprised at how easy it is to not remember the position of the gear when not being able to look at it.

Minimizing the panel to not show much of the detail beyond the six pack, hides the green gear light, power setting and flap positions. Try doing this with the sym.  The GU landings will happen a lot...

If anyone wants to get a start on IR training or practice procedures, the MSFS is not real, but good enough to get a leg up on the training.  If they are doing a 10Day IFR program, there isn't enough time to go home and start doing additional work to support the next days training....

The other half of the OP's question, how to set up an instrument panel with the Coronado panel builder software.  That is a challenge I'm not familiar with.  It is important to get it right, but the simulator is still MSFS with it's existing quirks.  Getting it right is going to take a lot of effort.

i have to find the thread where somebody gave the advice of how to bump the MSFS up to 310hp.  I want to simulate getting off the ground in 800'.

Sim is not plane, plane is not sim, but the more you know the better off you will be.

Best regards,

-a-

[1964-M20E]

I have used ASA's on top IFR simulator.  While you cannot fully customize the panel to match what you have it does give you good  IFR simulator experiences.  You can select a Mooney air frame and there are some radio and instrument selection that you can do.

 

Graphics are essentially non existent since it is intended to be an IFR sim.  Cost wise it is reasonable as well.  I have a yoke and throttle quadrant and opted to not get the rudder peddles since the idea is to fly the approaches.

[DXB]

7 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

I have used ASA's on top IFR simulator.  While you cannot fully customize the panel to match what you have it does give you good  IFR simulator experiences.  You can select a Mooney air frame and there are some radio and instrument selection that you can do.

 

Graphics are essentially non existent since it is intended to be an IFR sim.  Cost wise it is reasonable as well.  I have a yoke and throttle quadrant and opted to not get the rudder peddles since the idea is to fly the approaches.

I've wondered about this resource.  I have FSX running on an older laptop with Windows 7, but it is slow and clunky.  I don't need something that would appeal to a gamer, just something that is set up specifically as a basic IFR training tool and runs well.  I've seen a bunch of negative stuff regarding On Top on line but have no context for it.  Any guidance?

[1964-M20E]

I run it on an older XP machine

 

It does what is intended fly approaches.  when you get to airport environment all you see is a runaway.

 

 

[carusoam]

My XP machine stopped working, hence the new Costco one.  10years on a desktop machine.  Call me a CB!

one interesting thing to consider.  Do the procedures get updated on the online Steem version?  

It would still work with old procedures, but would be really cool knowing that you are using current version on your iPad and flying the current one on the sim...

there is also some additional wifi or BT communication between the desktop and the iPad, that I read somewhere.

And for the formation flight guys, we should be able to do that as well....online...

I am neither a comp sci guy, nor CFII.... But I know a guy here....(?)

Best regards,

-a-

[marky_24]

On 3/12/2016 at 10:48 PM, Matt Michael said:

I'm looking for guidance/assistance in configuring a basic home computer flight simulator for IFR practice. I don't care about hi res graphics or realism as much as being able to build a panel that matches the panel in my 66E.

I'm thinking of the Carenado M20J  running in MS FS2004 for example. I have a CH yoke, Saitek pedals, and a laptop with discrete graphics card.

I'm confused about how to go about custom building an instrument panel to more or less match the layout and functionality of my real one (standard 6 pack, G430, Stec 30...) I gather that it can be done but I'm not sure which software would be the easiest to work with or compatible with which flight sim. Trying to figure it out is starting to make my brain hurt.

I don't really want to spend a ton of money. All I really need to do is practice approaches but, if it's not too difficult to set up something with interactive ATC and linked to Foreflight I might be willing to shell out a few more real dollars.  

I have searched the forums and read various posts but haven't quite been able to stitch together the bits and pieces of info into a coherent guide. Hopefully someone who has already done what I'm trying to do will read this, and reply.

Thanks in advance

What's in your panel?  I use the Carenado M20J and it has a basic panel with a 530, that might be close enough  to what you have. It's about 65-70% of what the real plane is like, but the pitch is very sensitive.  But after lots of adjusting to the settings and after modifications to my CH yoke it's a lot better. 

https://davenunez.wordpress.com/2011/03/12/modding-the-ch-products-flight-yoke/

You can also edit the .CFG to change the HP for a C model and you can change the empty and gross weight to match yours. 

If you really want your panel you can spend some money on this program.

http://www.fspanelstudio.com

For the live ATC I use VATSIM, it's free.

https://www.vatsim.net

And for your Foreflight.

http://www.flightsimgps.com

[Dave Colangelo]

Ill throw something else in the mix here. I have the saitek setup running X-Plane 10 (On a new ish mac laptop). For what its worth X-Plane includes the plane builder software which allows you mod any panel as you wish. Simply open the plane and get to work. You can also change other things about the plane like flight dynamics and what not although ill admit I have not played with those yet. X-Plane offers a lot of functionality considering what it is and you don't need a beefy computer to run it. You can dial the graphics back and it will run fine on just about anything. Likewise if you have a few old computers lying around the house you can run X-Plane in a distributed manner and have each computer handle one aspect of the program. So if you are not married to MSFS you may want to take a look at X-Plane  

 

If you are curious as to what you can do with X-Plane this guy has about pushed it to the limit... 

 

[Matt Michael]

Really helpful stuff folks. Thanks!

Is data like airport info and approaches somehow updated periodically in say, MSFS2004 or are you flying approaches that were current when the program was published?

[Dave Colangelo]

Just now, Matt Michael said:

Really helpful stuff folks. Thanks!

Is data like airport info and approaches somehow updated periodically in say, MSFS2004 or are you flying approaches that were current when the program was published?

I know you were asking about MSFS, but...

X-Plane periodically updates stuff and adds new airports. You can check the release notes for the changes

It looks like the 430/530 unit in the sim has updates just like the real physical units (subscription based too!)

 

[flyboy0681]

On 3/12/2016 at 5:10 PM, carusoam said:

I use the Bravo with the steam gauge panel layout.  It is very similar to an early 90s Mooney.  VOR and ILS and Garmin 530 similarities.  The 'Steam' version of FS is a low cost, app available online.  Steam is a company that has software on line. Confusing at first.  Nothing to do with my favorite steam gauges....

 

 

I used the same SIM and the panel is very close to the J. I also bought and installed a 530 simulator and used the whole package extensively during my instrument training. It may sound silly but it helped me immensely, especially practicing holds and VOR approaches.

[aviatoreb]

Seems like it would be a great use of one of Alan's unfortunate chopped-up Mooneys to turn it into  garage sim center.

[carusoam]

The Steem group publishes a magazine related to the simulator world.

As far as updates go, the online part is updated like an IOS app.  Flying the sim Bravo around NJ today revealed that the Old AtlanticCity airport still exists...

Odd, but there is a baseball field there in real life.

Best regards,

-a-

[flyboy0681]

19 hours ago, Dave Colangelo said:

Ill throw something else in the mix here. I have the saitek setup running X-Plane 10 (On a new ish mac laptop). For what its worth X-Plane includes the plane builder software which allows you mod any panel as you wish. Simply open the plane and get to work. You can also change other things about the plane like flight dynamics and what not although ill admit I have not played with those yet. X-Plane offers a lot of functionality considering what it is and you don't need a beefy computer to run it. You can dial the graphics back and it will run fine on just about anything. Likewise if you have a few old computers lying around the house you can run X-Plane in a distributed manner and have each computer handle one aspect of the program. So if you are not married to MSFS you may want to take a look at X-Plane  

 

 

I can certainly understand the passion these life-size sim guys have for their projects, but what I can't understand are the companies that manufacture the interfaces between the hardware and software. How large of a worldwide market could there be to support a dedicated business like that? How many people have built similar simulators in their garage?

[Raptor05121]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

The Steem group publishes a magazine related to the simulator world.

As far as updates go, the online part is updated like an IOS app.  Flying the sim Bravo around NJ today revealed that the Old AtlanticCity airport still exists...

Odd, but there is a baseball field there in real life.

Best regards,

-a-

Airports are as they are when the sim was made (2006). You can update NAV fixes/GPS databases using AIRAC subscription (intended for IFR goonies)

[Dave Colangelo]

22 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

I can certainly understand the passion these life-size sim guys have for their projects, but what I can't understand are the companies that manufacture the interfaces between the hardware and software. How large of a worldwide market could there be to support a dedicated business like that? How many people have built similar simulators in their garage?

The interfaces he uses (as far as I know) are basically just A/D binary cars (switch on/off) my guess is its all just leftover tech from the industrial engineering world (this stuff has a lot of applications in factories. While there are not a ton of home sims like this there is a big market for the stuff in the pro world. Commercial pilots train in full control some times full motion sims all the time. 

Side note: if you were really nifty about it (and great at device driver programing) you could build effectively the same thing using an Arduino

[Kejidog]

I am new to The Mooney and thinking of purchasing A M20G. Can anyone recommend an X Plane download for the Mooney Have any users built a airframe in the builder app that would like to share with a new Member of the forms?

 

Thanks

Bruce