Air Conditioning

[michæl]

Has anyone added Air to their Ovation or Acclaim and if so, might you recommend where to have it done?

Thank you ~

[carusoam]

There may have been one reported done around here.  With the invention of the icebox air cooler there has been little demand for real ACs. The price of real AC is similar to a small car for your kid to drive.

The real need for cooling usually ends a few thousand feat above the ground.

Expect that the place to get such a complex job done would be an MSC. Parts and data supplied by Mooney.

If you are at a large airport in Texas, or similar, real AC can make a lot of sense.  A small airport in NJ, not so much...

Best regards,

-a-

[Jeff_S]

Premiere could do it, if you're in the Southeast. Check with any other MSC in your area if you're not

As to applicability, I can tell you that flying out of Atlanta it sure is nice to have, and more than just the summer months. And interestingly, in the winter you often get inversions where it's warmer above than below, so with those big windows and horrible little visors in the Ovation and Acclaim, having some cooling air is beneficial. But where is really shines is when you are flying instrument approaches in the summer months, down low, and ATC vectors you around for awhile...you can stay as cool as a cucumber.

It does add considerable weight to your W&B...about 80 lbs as I recall.  But it doesn't take away from your 120 lb baggage area limit...just adds the 80 to your total aircraft weight. 

[peevee]

4 hours ago, Jeff_S said:

 And interestingly, in the winter you often get inversions where it's warmer above than below

the first and only time I've encountered that was last summer off the OR coast, it was something like mid 90's on the approach and a nice 70's on the ground. We about roasted to death. Very, very strange.

Edited January 2, 2016 by peevee

[kmyfm20s]

I use mine all the time, love it! I fly all over the southwest and last summer seemed to have started early and ended late. I would call the factory they would be my first choice for installation. Second would be a MSC that has the most experience. I would estimate that you loose 5 kts with the scoops that hang out there. There are 2 hoses that run the length airplane. It believe it requires removing a couple of rivets to feed the hoses though. I had a mechanic accidentally puncher a hose and they replaced it. It was quite a process charging and adjusting it after that. If anyone is having problems with there units feel free to contact me. I kinda a pro at them. First off is to charge it by pressure not by amount after a complete vacuum on the system. There is a typo in the service manual which states 3.2lbs of r134 it should be 2.3lbs. Also if you have had a puncher like I did or a sudden lose of pressure it require estimating the amount oil in the system which will potentially change your charge levels. If your units not blowing cold air or is spitting ice at you you need to adjust the expansion, this will also affect your charge level. If you are overcharged or have any air in the system it will kick off the high pressure switch and blow warm air. 

[carusoam]

Great detailed explanation KMYF.  One Houston area LB guy (Docket) had difficulty with his AC after trying to get it recharged. He has since moved on to a twin Mooney...

Best regards,

-a-

[Piloto]

I have being flying in South Florida for over 35 years and never though about adding AC to my planes (too expensive, heavy and another maintenance headache). I keep the plane in the hangar and this helps a lot in keeping it cooler for taxing. Plan your trips in the morning not only to avoid the heat but the build ups. When taxing it helps to keep the passenger door partially open. The fan in front provides plenty of fresh air for cooling. Above 3,000 feet I feel pretty comfortable with outside air temps in the summer. 

José

[kmyfm20s]

I been flying in the Southern California desert 15 years with temp reaching 118 this years. After 10 years of showing up to the office with a red face, sweat stained dress shirts and slacks I bought a ice cooler A/C unit. It helped a lot but it was inconvenient for the amount of flying I did to be running and picking up bags of ice every time I wanted cool air. It is true that when you get to 5000' AGL the air is much cooler but I will usually not turn it off until I'm at 7000' AGL. I was willing to give up the 65lbs of useful load and the 3-5 kts for something that made my flying that much more enjoyable. Now this being an El Niño year I'm sure I will be wishing I had TKS this winter. Although even with TKS, for me flying over the coastal mountain range with mountain obscuration would make it a no go unless I was high enough to glide to clear sky's. Great, now I need A/C, TKS and a parachute!

[Jerry 5TJ]

I'm planning to add a "portable" true AC to the Ovation this year. I expect to spend some money on DER preparation of field approval. I'm told, by the A&P who has done many such installs into Cirrus planes, that with a 100A alternator he can get it together & approved.  The AC draws about 38 amps max at 28V and will I suspect be wired to battery #1.  AC exhaust will vent through rear of baggage compartment into aft tail come.

As the unit weight is 55 pounds I doubt I'll take it in and out more than seasonally.  Questionable if will fit through baggage hatch: it may have to go through the door. When it comes time to add more TKS fluid I'll pull out the AC box, I'm thinking.  A TKS fluid full tank load is about 60 pounds, coincidentally.

Yes it squats in the rear baggage area and takes some room but after 1200 hours in the C the rear seat area in the Ovation looks like Lurray Caverns to me. 

Cost compared to MSC retrofit of factory style AC is about half.  Factory unit rated at 24,000 BTU / hour versus about 15,000 for portable. 

Report to follow. 

[Mcstealth]

8 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I'm planning to add a "portable" true AC to the Ovation this year. I expect to spend some money on DER preparation of field approval. I'm told, by the A&P who has done many such installs into Cirrus planes, that with a 100A alternator he can get it together & approved.  The AC draws about 38 amps max at 28V and will I suspect be wired to battery #1.  AC exhaust will vent through rear of baggage compartment into aft tail come.

As the unit weight is 55 pounds I doubt I'll take it in and out more than seasonally.  Questionable if will fit through baggage hatch: it may have to go through the door. When it comes time to add more TKS fluid I'll pull out the AC box, I'm thinking.  A TKS fluid full tank load is about 60 pounds, coincidentally.

Yes it squats in the rear baggage area and takes some room but after 1200 hours in the C the rear seat area in the Ovation looks like Lurray Caverns to me. 

Cost compared to MSC retrofit of factory style AC is about half.  Factory unit rated at 24,000 BTU / hour versus about 15,000 for portable. 

Report to follow. 

I assume that the condensed water will be collected, and then discarded after each flight? I have not read about this install in Cirrus, or others. time to do some research.

DF

[carusoam]

Some Mooneys have an interior drain at the bottom of the baggage compartment.  The C does, it has a faring to keep the hole draining.  Don't recall if the O does.

Hope that helps,

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

11 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

I assume that the condensed water will be collected, and then discarded after each flight? I have not read about this install in Cirrus, or others. time to do some research.

The A&P said either collect it or route a drain line as part of the installation approval.  

[GHall]

Any new PIREPs on adding "portable" real air conditioning to a Mooney?  Considering adding ArcticAir portable self-contained A/C unit with compressor and 134A refrigerant to our M20J.  What kinds of alternator mods are needed?  Other options?  

[Bravoman]

On 1/2/2016 at 9:30 PM, Piloto said:

I have being flying in South Florida for over 35 years and never though about adding AC to my planes (too expensive, heavy and another maintenance headache). I keep the plane in the hangar and this helps a lot in keeping it cooler for taxing. Plan your trips in the morning not only to avoid the heat but the build ups. When taxing it helps to keep the passenger door partially open. The fan in front provides plenty of fresh air for cooling. Above 3,000 feet I feel pretty comfortable with outside air temps in the summer. 

José

And you forgot to mention that a pilot relief tube adds extra cabin ventilation!

[philiplane]

You generally need at least a 70 amp alternator to handle the 25-30 amp load from the a/c unit, plus the usual 20-25 amp load from avionics. If your normal loads are higher than 30 amps you should consider a 100 amp alternator from 

 

http://www.nationalairparts.com/alternator-product-information/faa-pma-n300-mooney-replacement-upgrade-alternators-new-national-n300-12-volt-70-and-100-amp-retrofit-alternators-for-mooney-aircraft/

[Lance Link]

Check out the Aritic Air real AC.  There is a bit to it but it seem similar to what Jerry 5TC says above.  I figure about $8k all in for the best 28 volt system.

[Lance Link]

Ok now I see GHall's post.  Reports are these things work well.  Give Arctic Air a call they are very helpful.  I may go this route myself.

 

[GHall]

thanks for the info.  their website doesn't appear very sophisticated... but I won't judge the book by its cover.  

[Lance Link]

It is true that the web site is not great.  You have to dig and study to get information on it.  There is a YouTube video about these units that helps a little.  It seems that a 100 amp alternator is a must.  Arctic Air claims that log book endorsements are the only things needed for installation, as the units are "portable".  I suppose that is up to the A & P that mounts the control panel, runs the wire, and makes the hole in the plane for venting, presumably out the rear bulkhead, or a vent out the bottom.  That seems like the biggest alteration.  Also, Arctic Air says they will make the smaller, lighter unit with a bigger compressor so one can get most of the best of both worlds of their smaller/bigger units.  But I did not explore the precise details of that type of unit when I talked to them.  I was told it costs a little more.  I got the guy who owns the company on the phone, rather than the woman who answers the phone whom I spoke with the first time around, and he gave me better and more complete information that she did.  He was very helpful.  This is not the first thing on my improvement list, and I'll see how I endure the coming summer months.  But with the studying and thinking about this approach I have done, I do not see a good reason not to go this way.  I will be very interested in reports from any and all who explore this equipment further!    

[KLRDMD]

I have one in my Baron, they work very well.

[aviatoreb]

Has anyone ever thought about one of these battery powered units?  Meant for small spaces and camping.

https://www.zerobreeze.com/products/zero-breeze-portable-air-conditioner

But it seems to be pitifully low 1100BTU.

...other than that.  It would be good.  Since flying is a special application where you mostly only need it often when low, during tax and take off and then at altitude its cool so turn it off.  So battery powered seems plausible.

[LANCECASPER]

2 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Has anyone ever thought about one of these battery powered units?  Meant for small spaces and camping.

 

[aviatoreb]

48 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

 

Huh.... seems like I am late the party and a dollar short.

So I would say - and yet - clearly I replied to that thread.  I totally forgot!  All I remember it seems is the concept of it and not the discussion.

...guess I forgot.

What were we talking about again?

Edited December 15, 2018 by aviatoreb

[Kelly Aerospace]

Our STC was just released for Mooney Mooney R, S, TN, U, and V models.

http://kellyaerospace.com/mooney-airconditioning-system-now-available/

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Kelly!

Want to post  a few pics?

I have a couple pics from the Summit 

Best regards,

-a-