Grass field operation

[howardld]

I am interested if anyone operates their Mooney out of a grass field on a regular basis. I am looking at an airpark that has 3000' of bermuda. Of course they have the taildraggers, beachcraft and cessna's, they even have one L-39 jet. Do you have any issues with paint abrasion on the gear doors? Do the square edges of gear doors grab the grass? How much does it change your take off roll compared to a paved field?

[GeorgePerry]

IMHO (others will differ) Mooney's and grass don't really go together.  You can take a Ferrari off road - but Enzo didn't really design them for that...you see my point.  Mooney's in much that same way were never designed for regularly operating off of unpaved fields.  The rubber shock pucks, the low prop tip to ground clearence, the delicate nose gear, wet wings that leak after abuse, etc ...make using a mooney on and off of grass less than ideal.  With that said, of course you can operate a mooney from a grass field and many do.  you just have to pay much closer attention to the surface condition and how long it's been since the last heavy rain...

As for your second question, depending on hardness of the sod, the thickness of the grass and when it was last cut, you can typically plan on 25-40% longer ground roll as compared to asphault due to increased rolling friction and slower acceleration.

 

[carusoam]

See Bryan Painter for all things grass and non pave surfaces.

Taxiing on grass makes me nervous.

Bouncing down an uneven surfaces is probably not good for fuel tank integrity.

-a-

[Lood]

Although I fully agree with the above replies, I want to asure you that a Mooney has no problem operating from grass or unpaved strips. Our local Mooney agent is situated at Port Alferd, which, apart from having among the most expensive Avgas, also sports one of the worst runways which are all grass. Probably the biggest fliying school in Africa, 43 Airschool, is also based there. Both their Pipers as well as almost all Mooney's in South Africa go in and out of there without problems, except for some rather interesting language use by the pilots. I hate going there due to the effect it must have on the fuel tanks.

Personally, I use my Mooney from dirt strips that I built myself - 99,9% of the time. The strip where I live is really nice and smooth due to the clay soil type, but I fly to another farm about once a month. There I have sand strip that is not for the unexperienced. I haven't had any problems arising from the use of these strips. I've used grass strips as well and as long as the grass is not too long and the surface is reasonably smooth, you'll be fine. 

Mooney's certainly are not built for these, but they sure can handle alot more than you'd think.

 

[Stefanovm]

Two Mooneys operate out of 07TS, a grass strip between Taylor, TX and Georgetown, TX, http://pages.prodigy.net/mark.stefanov/index.htm. There are 29 lots with a good mix from a Geronimo to hang gliders. I have an E and the other Mooney person has an M20. YES, that is no suffix. There were a few made. One of the powered glider pilots does not like the runway and plans to move. A Velocity owner moved his airplane due to numerous prop problems. I have a top prop which seems to have plenty of clearance. There are some real rough spots. The ones on my taxiway are unavoidable. I worry about the fuel tanks every time I go over them, but I love the location.

Our strip is 2,500 with 200 foot over runs. The biggest problem that I have encountered is the soft ground. The Mooney tires and weight make for cautious use after a lot of rain. However, everyone here tries to be cautious at those time.

At least once after a big rain, I made a rolling takeoff from my hanger, not wanting to stop. The ground roll from the beginning of the runway was +40%. I also stuck it once after a rain crosssing an area that always gets soggy, and with which I was not familiar, taxiing to visit a neighbor after a flight. Four of us pushing on the wings backed it out. Cleaing the mud off the tires was not easy.

[Dale]

We kept and hangared our M20E on a grass field for 20 years and used it in our farming business.  We flew it from farm to farm and landed it on many grass strips on those farms.  The Mooney was exceptional out of grass fields if you know what you are doing.  In fact, it was easier to get the Mooney out of some of the grass strips than the 172's we flew.  The M20E had more power to get through the grass and with the Johnson bar landing gear you could clean up the plan quickly, which can be important on some grass strips.  Landing techniques in some of these fields were also tricky and you need to keep the nose up to keep the propeller out of the grass, but with practice the Mooney was an easy plane to fly in and out of grass strips.  In fact, many of the grass strips were easier on the landing gear than the airports hard surface.  Its just a matter of technique and practice.   

[mjc]

I'm based at an airport with paved runways, but have no problem operating on unpaved strips. I've landed on grass, dirt, and sand, but only after checking the condition of the airstrip both by phone and via a low pass. I don't think I would fly to an unpaved field without some indication that it isn't overly rough so as not to risk damaging the nosewheel. In many cases, the grass actually seems softer. At the Columbia, CA airport, which has both paved and grass runways, I prefer to land on the grass when practical. The grass runway is soft and well-maintained there. Unpaved does not equal rough or unmaintaned. Someday, I'd like to fly to Johnson Creek or Garden Valley, in Idaho, and I'd take the Mooney to either one.

I've never compared my Mooney (or any Mooney, for that matter) to a Ferrari. I tend to compare it to a Honda Civic instead, in that it is small, reliable, and relatively economical. A Civic is still not a Jeep, but it'll do for a pretty substantial amount of off-road use. I figure if you're really serious about being able to land at any backcountry strip, you're not shopping for Mooneys in the first place.

[ELT]

Hi Guys,

I home based on a 2800 foot dog-legged good grass strip for 33 years.  27 years flying an Aztruck, 3 years other aircraft and 3 years in an Mooney E.  The Mooney does well on grass but requires better pilot techique than the CBP aircraft.  If the runway is ruff the Mooney will bounce just before rotation.  Rotation needs to be a the lowest possible speed (soft field proceedure if there is such a thing in a Mooney).  The low speed lift off presents another problem if there is a strong cross wind from the left (most grass fields have only 1 runway).  The rudder power on the E is low due to the short body and short rudder.  The combination of low speed lift off, P factor and left cross wind is exciting.  I like flying the Mooney off Beaufort with 3 paved runways much better even with the higher winds on the NC coast. 

[fantom]

My point is the heavy J's and K's, with inner gear doors, and the very heavy long body R's and M's can handle grass, BUT why press your luck? 

[lahso]

I landed my C model on grass once, and didn't enjoy it. The ride was too rough for me (the strip is a "famous", well-groomed, grass strip in the SE). There's nothing wrong those that do, but for me it's ashpalt/concrete only.

[rdav]

I've landed on a paved strip in Nelson that felt like grass.  At first I was certain that it was my landing technique that was off that day .. it was only when I taxied back and throttled up for take-off that I realized all of those dips and bumps were actually part of the surface of the runway.

[mikefox]

I've landed on many dirt or grass strips in my M20J, including several in Mexico (Mulege) and Canada (Tsunia Lake).  Some owners I have spoken with take the inner gear doors off to provide a bit more clearance to the ground at the expense of a few knots.

Also, I am very cautious about the landing and take-off distance numbers in POH's for grass strips.  The aircraft manufacturer is not obligated to test on grass strips, so these numbers may very well come from the engineer's calculations, and many assumptions need to be made, including type of grass, length of grass blades, dampness of grass, and firmness of surface.  This adds up to lots of uncertainty in my book, as an aeronautical engineer!

So I add 50% margin, hone my soft and short field skills, and go have fun....