Deb Posted August 13, 2015 Report Posted August 13, 2015 When you say you didn't compensate for altitude do you mean that the diversion required you to climb to an airport at a higher field elevation or that there were clouds in the area and you had to clear them? I suspect the diversion required a change from an easterly to westerly heading (or vice-versa) and he did not change altitude (likely descend) to the appropriate VFR altitude (even or odd plus 500 ft.) Quote
1964-M20E Posted August 13, 2015 Report Posted August 13, 2015 Good topic I have a check ride coming up next month myself. Like other have said some thing you just need to know where to find the answers. Especially if he points to a symbol on the chart you do not know flip to the legend it's all there. Same thing with the weather reports have a reference to look at to decode the abbreviations. However, you should be able to get most of it without a reference. Finally relax and fly the plane if he is talking too much and distracting you tell him to please be quite you need to fly the plane. This really should impress him since he will be trying to distract you as part of his job as DPE. Quote
ryoder Posted August 13, 2015 Report Posted August 13, 2015 Stuff I messed up on but still passed: didn't know how long was left on the ELT. Hint: it's spelled out in the annual as are all life limited parts. Didn't do a proper electrical fire simulation. Hint: shut off master first and foremost Didn't know what some blacked out airspace was. It was a drone flying area in northern Florida and was discussed in the border of the sectional. Didn't explain detonation versus preignition correctly, they are caused by the opposite factors. I kind of knew this but it was a stressful interview so I flubbed it. Didn't have my password for the FAA website and had to do the forgot password thing the day of. Don't do this. Login the night before. Didn't do a proper diversion. I got to the other airport but was expected to do some explaining on how I would get there not only using pilotage (following the power lines north till I hit state road 52) but dead reckoning giving him headings and times of flight. Quote
DrBill Posted August 13, 2015 Report Posted August 13, 2015 The only question I missed was HOW WIDE IS AN AIRWAY ? 4nm each side of centerline . Never forgot it after that day , August 24, 1970 !!! 45 years in 2 weeks !! BILL 1 Quote
N33GG Posted August 13, 2015 Report Posted August 13, 2015 When I took my initial CFI oral I was READY FOR ANYTHING! After a while of questions and clearly I knew everything at that time, the examiner asked me to agree that as an instructor I needed to know Part 91 completely. I agreed. Then he asked me "WHAT IS THE FIRST WORD IN PART 91?" The answer is "EXCEPT". Leave it to the FAA to start with the exceptions! That was decades ago and I haven't forgotten either! And I haven't been asked since. I do however throw that question out when I get a super smart pilot on a flight review. Quote
Rik Posted August 17, 2015 Author Report Posted August 17, 2015 Just learned the DE failed a student because the student did not know PAVE. WOW.. Quote
Marauder Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Just learned the DE failed a student because the student did not know PAVE. WOW.. What's PAVE? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
ryoder Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Just learned the DE failed a student because the student did not know PAVE. WOW.. My school provided checklists for each airplane. I think they should have had a PAVE checklist as well. Why wait until the week before the checkride to learn about PAVE? I teach friends aviation and this is the first thing I go over. I ask checkride questions like "prove to me we are safe to make the flight today starting with the PIC". Quote
1964-M20E Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 What's PAVE? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ditto may have heard it before but don't have a clue. Generally most acronyms just confuse me more than help me. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 ditto may have heard it before but don't have a clue. Generally most acronyms just confuse me more than help me. agreed, they are trying to teach common sense....good luck with that. 1 Quote
Marauder Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 ditto may have heard it before but don't have a clue. Generally most acronyms just confuse me more than help me. I think it is new school for an old school concept: http://aviation.about.com/od/Pilot-Training/a/Pave-A-Personal-Minimums-Checklist-For-Risk-Management.htm In other words, what we learned 30+ years ago still applies; make sure you are physically up to flight, as is the airplane, as is the weather and no one is pressuring you to make the flight. Someone once one in corporate America told me to hang onto my acetates (translation: my PowerPoint slides), BECAUSE in 7 years I would need them again. Man, does this ring true... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
mike_elliott Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 Just learned the DE failed a student because the student did not know PAVE. WOW.. hummm...did I mention that ADM was a hot button with the FAA now? Quote
N33GG Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 As a previous post indicated, ADM is hot right now. Expect distracting questions or talk on take off or landing, and you should ask the examiner to please hold the thought while you concentrate on flying the aircraft safely. Other hot topic is runway incursions. Be ready for questions on signage, read back requirements, and permission required to cross any runway. FWIW... I just had a flight refresher clinic! Quote
Rik Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks. Studying PAVE, CARE, TEAM, 3P, 5P, DECIDE, IMSAFE. fu*** Quote
Deb Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 If you really want to impress and you have a bit of extra time (OK, probably not), you might try looking at the FAA's latest in flight risk assessment tools (and newest acronym FRAT): http://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/SE_Topic_15-08.pdf Quote
Marauder Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 If you really want to impress and you have a bit of extra time (OK, probably not), you might try looking at the FAA's latest in flight risk assessment tools (and newest acronym FRAT): http://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/SE_Topic_15-08.pdf I wish they had one of these for work. I would be on permanent disability Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
mike_elliott Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 If you really want to impress and you have a bit of extra time (OK, probably not), you might try looking at the FAA's latest in flight risk assessment tools (and newest acronym FRAT): http://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/SE_Topic_15-08.pdf you caught on to what is going on. There seem to be a lot of people needing to justify existence, contracts, and status at times, and being on a steering committee to find a solution before the problem is defined seems like a good way to act busy. Look for rewrites, more regs, more acronyms, new PTS, etc in the future. Do we need to change the way we train and certify? Perhaps, as what worked 70 years ago just might need to be improved upon, yet somehow, it appears that this is an attempt to fix safety issues by regulation instead of cause and effect correction. I hope the end results are what the "committee" wants, but am not sold on it yet without back testing the processes in the NPRM Read Rod Machado's comments in the NPRM http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FAA-2013-0316-0156 I wish they had one of these for work. I would be on permanent disability Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk . Quote
ryoder Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 That frat tool is missing tons of risk factors. Flying to a new airport Have new passengers on board that could distract Been a while since last flight Had recent maintenance Rental switched last minute to another airplane Secondary comm inop Problems starting Airshow or other crazy traffic Flying into the sun Navaids or atis inop Very hot day Marauders girlfriends in the airplane Quote
Rik Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Posted August 19, 2015 There's apparently a big PUSH now for the ADM which incorporated all these fancy little acronyms that we have to learn, memorize and apply to a given situation. These range from "SAFETY" to cover the pre-flight orientation, Seat-belts, Air Vents, Fire Extinguisher, ELT, Traffic, Your Questions, and then goes on to the 3P's Perceive,(broken down with subcategory PAVE -Pilot, Aircraft, enVironment, External Factors) Process (broken down to CARE, Consequences, Alternatives, Reality, External Pressures) Perform to form a situational tool model which will determine if you should take a flight today based upon using each of these tools incorporated into any circumstances that might exist. Followed by the IMSAFE, Illness, Medication, Stress, Alcohol, Fatigue, Emotion/Eating.. From what I hear they can ask any and all of this and have you apply each and every one of them in a systematic step by step evaluation of ...{EXAMPLE} So your friend wants you to fly him, his 98 lb g'friend to the Adult Video Awards in Vegas where she has her best friend, she is showing you some real nice photos of right now, is waiting to meet you in person. The plane is a 152, the distance is 375 miles over mountainous terrain, the ceiling at takeoff is 3,000' scattered class G and the weather at LAS is projected to be 1,800' mist. It's 5pm on a Friday What do you do? Use PAVE, 3P, DECIDE and CARE to explain the situation. First.. IMSAFE.. Your not sick, you haven't taken any medications but your head hurts after a day at work. Your not stressed you are tired and you haven't eaten yet as your leaving work now. 3P.... Perceive, the ceiling and weight limitations of the 152, PAVE. Pilot is good to go. The Plane is going to take forever but it's slow and going to be heavy. Possibly needs a fuel stop. enVirnment, very tall mountains from NorCal to Vegas, going to have to find a route around most of these someway, External Pressure, meeting a nice Stripper/***** in Vegas is real pressure! Process, CARE Consequences of taking this flight, fuel starvation, exhaustion, CFIT, Night Currency, Alternatives, SouthWest Airlines, Reality it's not that smart to do this mission in this plane, External Pressure, your friend wants to impress his new G'friend as she's promising to do a lot fun things tonight Perform, Execute a plan, fuel, plan, eat (QUICKLY) and fly or DECIDE Detect the problem. I'm going to arrive so late that this hot chick is going to be drunk and already hooked up with someone else. The plane is to small, to slow, the weather is marginal at arrival, the plane is not IFR, I'm not IFR Estimate: To little speed, to little fuel, to little time Choose. Different plane, have I been check'd out in this Cessna 182 or the Cardinal? Leave at a different time? Identify, The plane is not up to the task and the weather would require a MVFR landing and I'm not rated for that Do Something: Buy tickets on SouthWest Evaluate: Arrive on time to meet Tiffany Lee before she's to drunk or taken This is what only one part of the Oral has come down to it appears... 1 Quote
1964-M20E Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 This is all great and I have seen it in industry over the last 25 years as well but can you actually fly the plane safely and communicate with others while doing it? Unfortunately we keep getting bombarded with all these acronyms and BS and it all is what you should be doing anyway without thinking. The only acronym I know well is GUMP. quite simply: Is the plane ready and capable? Am I ready and capable? Is the weather ready? Do I have plans A, B & C ready to put into action? Quote
Andy95W Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 I'm glad I'm done getting licenses and certificates. I'm not sure I could pass a checkride anymore because I don't know all the acronyms that do little but provide justification for someone's job. And in the end, all they really do is to tell us: 1.) don't do stupid crap, like fly an unsafe airplane on a 6 hour flight on no sleep and only 4 hours of gas. 2.) if you're not sure if something is stupid, ask somebody who hopefully knows better, like an instructor. I apologize for not helping you get ready for your checkride, but thanks for providing a soap box to get on! Quote
mike_elliott Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Yep. 4 each side. Although nowadays we're required to use an RNP value of 1, and in the Mooney I use .30mile enroute. I have absolutely no idea what the heck that stands for. I've never heard of it. I'd contact the FSDO and complain about that crap. That's almost criminal right there!!!! Ugh! Wouldn't do you a bit of good. Its the FSDO's that are pushing this. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.