Bartman Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 I don't know how long the Chanpion plugs were in service, but at every annual the guys would always say the plugs are good. They have been in since we bought the plane in 2007, about 700 hours ago. We just installed a new set of Tempest plugs before a 3.5 hr flight to Destin FL. Subjectively, it did start easily and ran smooth very quickly. Objectively, what I did notice was that the peak EGT was about 25-40 deg cooler across the board. I used to peak around 1500, but on Friday we peaked about 1465 like it used to when in 2007. I could also run a little bit further LOP before it was rough, about 60-70 deg but I didnt cruise there. At 9,000 feet she was very smooth at 10-15 LOP. At 12,000 she was smooth running at peak, but I still get that "hiccup" every 15-20 minutes at higher altitudes. That doesn't bother me usually, but in the clouds it does increase the sphincter tone. I am happy with the purchase, but could not see spending 3x the price for fine wires. I see no reason why the size of the center electrode would make that much difference, or why they would command such a price. 3 Quote
jetdriven Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Because they last more than 3 times longer. They'll go 2000 hours. There is also labor savings over the life of the plug of approx 1/2 to 1 hour every 50hr inspection because you don't sandblast them nor set the gap. 1 Quote
Piloto Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 I had the same good experience with the massive Tempest plugs even after 600hrs. I feel more confident with massive than with the fine wire. I have that feeling with the fine wires that the little wire is going to fall off because it was not welded at the proper temp., just my luck. José 1 Quote
carusoam Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Interesting thought... The higher EGT of the non-preferred plug indicates that some fuel is left unburned as it heads out the exits... May you see improved fuel mileage with the new, increased fuel burning, plugs... That's what it sounds like to me, -a- Quote
jetdriven Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 I had the same good experience with the massive Tempest plugs even after 600hrs. I feel more confident with massive than with the fine wire. I have that feeling with the fine wires that the little wire is going to fall off because it was not welded at the proper temp., just my luck. José More dogma and speculation. It feels like that tiny wire is going to fall off. But they don't. I recently noticed something in the spark plug hole of a IO-360 the other day. The 1/2" long tang from the heli-coil threaded in the plug hole. It reached across the entire hole where the plug goes and nobody ever noticed it. It had been there 25 years and 2200 hours. Fine wires are no less durable than massive plugs. The only exception is in high compression TN engines like the tornado alley conversions. Fine wire champion plugs have cracked the insulators from detonation and the massive electrode plugs are more durable in that regard. No complaints against tempest fine wires for the same failure mode. Jose what do your massive plugs look like after 1000 hours? 2000? Quote
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 They're in the scrap metal bin long before 1000 hours! Clarence Quote
PTK Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 One data point: I replaced my Champions two annuals ago with Tempest massive. Never had a problem with the Champions. They just were getting long in the tooth! What an amazing difference! Smooth all around. Egt's dropped slightly although I haven't quantified it and not sure how statistically significant the drop is. Could be old vs new as the champs were just old compared to brand new Tempest. I have about 150 hours on them thus far. I'm reminded to what I was missing every time I fire her up! Quote
Bob_Belville Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Byron and Clarence see 100 times more plugs than I do but I had had fine wire plugs on my first E. They were still fine when I swapped out the engine with Norm Bender. I don't have the logs from that plane but I think the plugs had over 1000 hours. (4 or 5 years at the rate I was flying then.) Â The first thing I did after buying this E was to replace one of the Champion plugs. @ 600 hours about 1/3 of the plugs had been replaced by the prior owner. A couple of months later I replaced all the plugs with Tempest fine wire. Mag checks testify that all plugs are performing well with relatively low rpm drop (50-60 rpm) that is symmetric. I have never had a fouled fine wired plug. Quote
MyNameIsNobody Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 My sphincter tone has been hushed by my Bose headset. Get one. Clouds won't bother you anymore. 1 Quote
Piloto Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 More dogma and speculation. It feels like that tiny wire is going to fall off. But they don't. I recently noticed something in the spark plug hole of a IO-360 the other day. The 1/2" long tang from the heli-coil threaded in the plug hole. It reached across the entire hole where the plug goes and nobody ever noticed it. It had been there 25 years and 2200 hours. Fine wires are no less durable than massive plugs. The only exception is in high compression TN engines like the tornado alley conversions. Fine wire champion plugs have cracked the insulators from detonation and the massive electrode plugs are more durable in that regard. No complaints against tempest fine wires for the same failure mode. Jose what do your massive plugs look like after 1000 hours? 2000? Unlike the Champions the Tempest do not look like a football. I also noticed less or no corrosion on the outside vs. the Champions. The fine wires are too expensive for me with no added benefit. With massive I can run smooth 20deg LOP. José Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Tempest fine wires gave me quite a nice reduction in EGT & TIT on my M20K. I also lost the occasional misfire at altitude that occurred with the Champions. Best thing I did to my airplane for the $ 2 Quote
BigTex Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Tempest fine wires gave me quite a nice reduction in EGT & TIT on my M20K. I also lost the occasional misfire at altitude that occurred with the Champions. Best thing I did to my airplane for the $ Can't agree more. Outside of my engine monitor, it was by far the best investment I've made. 1 Quote
Bartman Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Posted June 17, 2015 My sphincter tone has been hushed by my Bose headset. Get one. Clouds won't bother you anymore. The occasional misfire while in the soup at 12K was what I referred to. We use Bose. Quote
1964-M20E Posted June 17, 2015 Report Posted June 17, 2015 During annual last month I replaced all 8 of my tempest with new tempest. The other ones I'm not sure how long they were in there when I bought the plane and they looked pretty old. I flew them for close to 300 hours. Several of them had cracked insulators around the electrode that precipitated the change out. I did not notice any problems running the previous plugs and there was no difference with the new ones. Quote
CCowboy Posted June 17, 2015 Report Posted June 17, 2015 Just made the decision to replace all the Champion massives with Tempest Fine Wire plugs. Have only made one flight, and at low altitude. But, ran smoother and the mag check was impressive. Tested the Champion plug's resistance, 4 of 11 were bad with resistance greater than 5K ohm. In fact 2 were greater that 12K ohm. Will report back when do high altitude mission over the 4th. As these don't wear out every 300-400 hrs, there is a cost savings running the engine to TBO. Pay now, or pay later. One was new from a month ago, thus can opine on the 11 older plugs. Quote
FlyDave Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 Chuck, Â Any update on the Tempest fine wires in your rocket? I'm flying to Appleton for Oshkosh (can't wait to see everyone!) and was thinking of putting at set (all 12) in this week and fly them a little before heading out on the 18th. Â Thanks, Â Dave (aka Skybolt) Quote
CCowboy Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 Update on the Tempest Fine Wire Spark Plugs in a M20K-231: Very happy with the decision to spend the $$ and get these plugs. Noted that the start is almost instant cold or hot. Wife (non-pilot) noted that the engine is smoother running. Mag check has less drop and all EGT's rise the same. I am happy with the concept that these plugs will go to TBO without having to replace, thus a cost saving over 10 yrs. Yes, the up-front cost is steep, but I think the overall operating costs will be less...and....better dispatch reliability will the chance of a Champion failing and scrubbing a flight. On a parallel note, a friend with a 252 checked his Champion Massives on oil change. 10 of 12 were over the 5K ohm resistance limit. I think we are on to something! Quote
FlyDave Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 Thanks Chuck! I just ordered a set and will have them in before the weekend. I'll post a pirep after I have some time with them. 1 Quote
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