Anyone wondering why the Chinese bought Mooney?

[cliffy]

www.globaltimes.cn/content/912151.shtml

[MooneyBob]

I am going to get me CFI and move to China. It looks like I will be busy for next 20 years.

[ArtVandelay]

I am going to get me CFI and move to China. It looks like I will be busy for next 20 years.

Don't have to, they are coming here in droves, my old flight school here in Florida has tripled in size.

[HRM]

...and all this time it wasn't Little Timmy, but Xiǎo Time Yei 

[cliffy]

Knew a guy who trained Chinese airline pilots.Whenever he was asked how it was going he had a 3 word reply-

"Can't be done" !

[robert7467]

They did it for rudder peddle extension research and development.

[BKlott]

They do a pretty good job of annoying the Controllers!

[Bravoman]

Maybe cause they can't drive they figured they would try high performance aircraft!

[kerry]

It is puzzling.  I'm surprised the Chinese just didn't buy one used Mooney, copy it and rebrand it Mooni.  Then sell thousands of them on Alibaba!

[gsxrpilot]

Sometimes the depth of fear and ignorance of on this board of anything not "American" is staggering.  Of course most of you wouldn't have had the benefit of living or working abroad, (and US Military postings won't count). I've been to China, lived in Asia, and worked with many Chinese and count many as close friends. While their culture is different than ours, it certainly isn't inferior. They have the same capacity to learn and perform as any of us. This includes driving and flying. Those of you who think they're causing problems in the pattern as students or are difficult to teach, think back to your own primary training. Now how well do you think you'd have done learning to fly in China? Their English might be terrible, but I'm sure it's better than your Mandarin.

 

It's true our political system has allowed and fostered the innovation that has us quite aways ahead in aviation. And I'm very thankful to be in America where I can own and fly my own Mooney. But the Chinese system and culture has allowed them to have the numbers and the financial might to buy the whole damn company. So I guess there are pro's and con's both ways.

 

They will certainly have growing pains as GA grows over there. But before I lose my medical for good, I think there's a chance I might have the opportunity to visit China, rent a Mooney, and see the countryside. In fact, I'll bet my paycheck that one day there will be aircraft for sale here in the US, imported from China.

[ryoder]

My flight school had a Chinese student operation. The kids were very nice and eager to learn. Their English was not the greatest but they paid their dues here and stimulated our economy so I don't see the problem. China however does have a major problem with intellectual property. Chinese and other Asian cultures think nothing of downloading illegal reproductions of movies and software. I worked with lost of Chinese people and Indian people and they actually think it's their right to take this from America because of colonialism or corporate profits or some other hogwash. Even professionals I work with refuse to pay for HBO or Netflix because they would prefer to steal the content. For this reason you have to be very careful taking any property to China or India.

[mikerocosm]

We hear a lot of Chinese student pilots on our radios around here, and two things cross my mind when I hear them: 1) the patience of the controllers dealing with them, and 2) The drive it must take to learn to fly while also learning to speak and read a new language. I think about what it would be like to go to China to learn to fly, speaking only Chinese, and -- perhaps most intimidating -- reading Chinese. These are people who don't take at all for granted that which comes -- by virtue of our winning the birth lottery -- easily to English-speaking north americans.

[Spenscot]

Oh GSXR, lighten up a little. Telling a few non-PC (and funny) jokes isn't a display of fear or ignorance. It's all in the interest of good humor And before you extol the Chinese economic system you might ask the hundreds of millions living outside of the major cities in DIRE poverty how they feel about their government building entire ghost cities and funding a massive military while they lack basic necessities.

[Bob - S50]

I have nothing against individuals regardless of where they are from.  However, when I fly overseas I have no problem understanding the Russians or Japanese and I can usually understand the Koreans but I have a very difficult time understanding the Chinese. However, the controllers around Shanghai seem to speak better English than those around Beijing. There are a couple reasons I try to avoid flying to China.

 

1.  If you do not understand what they told you, there is a pretty good chance they will not repeat it for you.  Something to do with the saving face mentality that exists in many cultures.  That means I may go/do something I've not been cleared for and end up violated.  Its a good thing there are 3 of us in the cockpit at that point because hopefully one of us will have understood.

 

2.  They let politics affect safety.  I have personally flown with a pilot who had to divert emergency fuel to Seoul because the Chinese controllers would not allow him to land at any airport in China.  They said he would be arrested if he did.  All because they did not like something Obama or Clinton had said about China earlier that day.  I've also flown with pilots who have sat waiting for takeoff for over an hour while they watched planes from other countries taxi past them and take off.  Again, because of something that was said.

 

I admire anyone who flies while speaking English rather than their native language.  If I had to learn French or Spanish or Japanese or Chinese or... to fly for a living, I would have found another profession.

 

However, there is no place for culture, politics, or ego in aviation if they are going to affect safety.

[cliffy]

My original post was not to start a political diatribe. It was to show that maybe someone had good insight into what the Chinese were doing inside their own country.  Obviously the head man at Mooney had some good intel BEFORE he committed to buying Mooney.

Obviously he had good business sense to bring out the M10 as the Chinese begin to build the infrastructure of an aviation economy inside their country. 

 

A couple more observations as all may not be bright lights and patent leather shoes either-

 

It's still a Communist country where lots of things do not get out to the world. Difficulties that may cast a bad light  (or hurt personal images) never see the light of public notification- newspapers to say one item. Difficulties in the loss of airplanes inside the country may not be reported worldwide with the complete control of information.

 

There is a well documented history of a cultural issue in training Chinese pilots and in cockpit CRM with the same crews. One only has to look at several recent accidents to see the issue. I spent many years doing airline training in large jets. I've seen it first hand. My second post was direct from a person whom I have known for over 50 years and one of very few I trust implicitly in the airline training field.  

 

Up till now the original cadre of big airplane pilots in China have almost exclusively come from the Chinese military (not counting the expats now flying the airliners). This may/has have/had a large influence on how they react in the cockpit. With a huge build up of ab initio pilots, if this new aviation infrastructure comes to pass, this may all change. Only time will tell. 

 

With no aviation infrastructure they have to go the ab initio training route to fill their airline cockpits as they try to get rid of the expat pilots. They have no other way to find  pilots. While the goals of that training system are noble and on paper it may pencil out, I am not a big fan of filling jet cockpit seats going that route. My personal opinion and choice. Its rote training without the decision making steps that true long term experience brings into the mix. 

Nor am I a big fan of Airbus and its basic design parameters for operation by ab initio pilots, but that is another whole subject for a different time.  

 

All the points about learning to fly while learning English are noted but that is no different than any other non-English student pilot around the world. In fact, ICAO has a requirement for an "English proficient"  endorsement to be placed right on your pilot's license in order to fly from country to country around the world.  When one looks at how many dialects of Chinese there are and one pilot may not be able to communicate with the other in his own dialect, it now raises the level of concern if some have to learn another dialect just to learn English and to communicate while learning to fly. A large mountain to climb. 

 

It's going to be a long, protracted, uphill battle to say the least.

[Shadrach]

Sometimes the depth of fear and ignorance of on this board of anything not "American" is staggering.  Of course most of you wouldn't have had the benefit of living or working abroad, (and US Military postings won't count). I've been to China, lived in Asia, and worked with many Chinese and count many as close friends. While their culture is different than ours, it certainly isn't inferior. They have the same capacity to learn and perform as any of us. This includes driving and flying. Those of you who think they're causing problems in the pattern as students or are difficult to teach, think back to your own primary training. Now how well do you think you'd have done learning to fly in China? Their English might be terrible, but I'm sure it's better than your Mandarin.

 

It's true our political system has allowed and fostered the innovation that has us quite aways ahead in aviation. And I'm very thankful to be in America where I can own and fly my own Mooney. But the Chinese system and culture has allowed them to have the numbers and the financial might to buy the whole damn company. So I guess there are pro's and con's both ways.

 

They will certainly have growing pains as GA grows over there. But before I lose my medical for good, I think there's a chance I might have the opportunity to visit China, rent a Mooney, and see the countryside. In fact, I'll bet my paycheck that one day there will be aircraft for sale here in the US, imported from China.

 

[yin1752]

Sometimes the depth of fear and ignorance of on this board of anything not "American" is staggering.  Of course most of you wouldn't have had the benefit of living or working abroad, (and US Military postings won't count). I've been to China, lived in Asia, and worked with many Chinese and count many as close friends. While their culture is different than ours, it certainly isn't inferior. They have the same capacity to learn and perform as any of us. This includes driving and flying. Those of you who think they're causing problems in the pattern as students or are difficult to teach, think back to your own primary training. Now how well do you think you'd have done learning to fly in China? Their English might be terrible, but I'm sure it's better than your Mandarin.

 

It's true our political system has allowed and fostered the innovation that has us quite aways ahead in aviation. And I'm very thankful to be in America where I can own and fly my own Mooney. But the Chinese system and culture has allowed them to have the numbers and the financial might to buy the whole damn company. So I guess there are pro's and con's both ways.

 

They will certainly have growing pains as GA grows over there. But before I lose my medical for good, I think there's a chance I might have the opportunity to visit China, rent a Mooney, and see the countryside. In fact, I'll bet my paycheck that one day there will be aircraft for sale here in the US, imported from China.

I am Taiwanese and working in China now. Last year I got my PPL in Berlin of Germany. The main reason for me to go to Germany to learn my PPL was that I didn't need to worry about some American laught my English. I prefer to pay more money to get the "respect". We have the different native languages so I will give you the hand and respect when you guys come to Taiwan or China.

I am from a country Taiwan we are not belonging to ICAO member, so I can't learn flight in Taiwan. You guys are lucky and you can own a plane and enjoy the life.

I agree with you, some Chinese may didn't do good enough things but American either. Sorry my English is very poor and I can't express my idea in correctly way.

I like your opinion and welcome to Asia again and I am happy to be your co-pilot to enjoy the trip to countryside.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Sometimes the depth of arrogance and lack of sense of humor on this board is astounding...humor and jokes are often at the expense of others. Not possible to not offend someone in this PC world. Humor. Something the world needs more of.

[1964-M20E]

I had the opportunity to be with a group of Chinese nationals who were here for a business educations program.  We gave them a tour of the plant I was working at.  I asked one of the members of the group what he knew about general aviation and small plane in China and he was enthusiastic about the skies opening up over there.

 

Just a first hand observation.

 

Oh they were very polite and well dressed for a plant tour.  I do find that among most Asians I have done business with.  Yes they do have a cultural issue with saying no and saving face.  Not always a bad thing.

[flyboy0681]

Great thing about building all these airports in China is they don't have to answer to tree-huggers or deal with environmental impact studies to get the job done. Simply select the site, survey the winds, tear down whatever occupies the space and start pouring.

[ryoder]

I worked for Chinese people all through high school and college and they were had working and very smart capitalists. My boss told me the Americans who worked at the state told him to slow down because he was programming too fast. He rejected Chinese communist crap and embraced productivity and self determination. I had a Chinese girlfriend and she said I was too stupid to learn Chinese. She was hot though.

[yvesg]

What is the Chineese equivalent of the $100 oops... $200 hamburger?

Yves

[Bravoman]

What is the Chineese equivalent of the $100 oops... $200 hamburger?

Yves

Peking duck and Dim Sum. Now that's worth jumping into the airplane for!

[Omega703]

(and US Military postings won't count).

.

Why not?

Sent from my iphone near amori prefecture- Japan

[gsxrpilot]

Why not?

Sent from my iphone near amori prefecture- Japan

From my experience, living abroad as an employee of the US Government is completely different from living abroad as a private citizen. And especially from living on a US Base abroad which is almost like being in a little US bubble. Living and working abroad as a private citizen got me a much deeper immersion in the local culture and with the local people.