Aerobatic Flight

[TWinter]

I've mentioned it before, but I've now officially committed myself (sent my deposit) to attend the Greg Koontz Aerobatic School in Alabama on April 12-14th. Seems like a nice guy with a wealth of knowledge and great program. I'm sure it will be fun, but also a great learning experience as well. I'll learn about upset flight and recovery as well as many other phases of 3D flight. Should be quite the experience 

 

-Tom

[Danb]

A pirep will be in order I keep getting info from pas..think it is a great idea..

[TWinter]

Going to get there Sunday. I'll be leaving the Mooney at KGAD Municipal and Greg will pick me up. They seem like a very accommodating FBO and said no charge for keeping the Mooney inside a closed hanger for a few days (just have to fill up before I leave).

 

Apparently, his grass field is only about 10 miles from GAD. If the weather is good and the ground is dry I may just land at his grass field. Just keeping fingers crossed for good weather. Pirep will follow for sure!

[dcrogers11]

Wow, I always wanted to go up there and attend his school.  I can't wait to hear your Pirep.  I did all my training locally.  Tailwheel and then acrobatic/unusual attitudes training has been the best thing for improving my flying and most fun I've had in a long time. After initial TW sign off, I moved to Pitts transition training with acrobatic and unusual attitudes work.  The down side is that it makes flying your Mooney like driving your grandmothers Buick.    You're going to come back wanting to buy one his Super Decathlons he sales.

 

Regards,

Don

[rbp]

I took the upset training class at FCI in AZ. 

 

here's one video, but you'll find a lot more on my youtube page:

[Jeff_S]

I can give you a PIREP on Greg Koontz's program.  I will try to be fair and balanced, and I don't want to skew Tom's expectations or experience, but maybe this will be helpful. I attended with a buddy back in 2008. I was still flying a Warrior at the time and my buddy had (still has) a C172.  Greg's set-up is idyllic, no question. A nice grass runway and a comfortable home with two guest rooms, and he and his wife are very accommodating.  At the time, their dog had bad fleas, so if that's still the case keep your distance! (Hey, it is farm country after all.)

 

Greg is also very knowledgeable about aerobatics, and his ground school teaching style makes the concepts clear and easy to understand.  My issue came in the flying portions of the class. Here I was, still a fairly "young" pilot with only a few hundred hours under my belt and no experience in a complex airplane, and only a couple of hours in a taildragger. Off we go in his Super Decathlon, and I'm still trying to figure out what the blue knob is for and he's hammering me on "attitude based" flying approach.  I quickly got to task saturation and was just trying to keep up. But then the real problem set in when we did the first aileron roll, and I can't blame this on anybody but me...it never even occurred to me that I might get sick. I've never had a motion sickness problem before, and didn't bring anything to deal with it. But that first roll upside down just flipped a bit in my head and I got nauseated immediately.  Greg does keep plenty of sick bags so he's prepared for that.

 

On the afternoon hop, we tried a loop, and unfortunately had the same result. Apparently my head just doesn't like to go inverted. So my first day ended with a decision that we would treat this like a tailwheel transition course and just not worry about the aerobatics portion.  On the second day we spent a lot of time at the Gadsden airport on ground maneuvers, fast taxiing, learning how to use adverse yaw to help steer, etc.  It was all good experience, but I still found Greg's in-plane teaching style to be quite authoritarian and pedantic, throwing things at me faster than I could absorb them and not giving me any real sense of accomplishment.

 

To his credit, Greg did realize that in two short days I wasn't going to surmount my motion sickness problem and made the transition to a different training program so I got some value for what I paid. But for me personally, his in-plane teaching style didn't match up well with my temperament and my general comfort level at that time, and it wasn't clear to me that he adjusted accordingly. It's very possible that were I to go back now, with a lot more flying experience under my belt (and a proactive sickness avoidance strategy), I would have a very different experience. I'll be eager to hear how Tom's works out.

[chrisk]

I took the upset training class at FCI in AZ. 

 

here's one video, but you'll find a lot more on my youtube page:

 

 

Nice video.  When watching it I found this one.  It gives a good view of what you will see when you spin a plane.

 

[bonal]

A couple of years ago did first part of syllabus at Attitude Aviation at Livermore airport LVK a hour in classroom and a couple in the 152 aerobat. real world flight, stalls slow flight fully developed spins and roles. next phase is in the Citabria for tail wheel work and loops and more aggressive training. they have a big fleet including a Pitts and a Great lakes a Marchetti  a T-6 among others. My first time in aerobatic flight was in a Christen Eagle and the PIC did his complete routine that he used in aerobatic competition.  I never got the least bit sick because before and during each move he would instruct me when and where to look.  went over 7 g's I will never forget that day (it was before my own flying began)

[TWinter]

Jeff,

 

Thanks for the feedback..I'm looking forward to it and have scheduled for the two day course. 

 

Greg and I have only spoken on the phone a few times and the rest in emails. He does seem very down to business with not much small talk. I did find it kind of interesting that he did not ask how many hours I had flown, what kind of plane I flew, what my ratings were or what my expectations and goals were from the course. Maybe things will be different and more personable after we meet.

 

Ironically, kind of off the cuff I said, " Well, I am anxious for you to show me some aerobatics", he was quick to correct me and say, " Well, I don't show aerobatics, I teach it"..My only thought as a reply was a slight chuckle and to agree with him. I asked about any prep work I might need to do before and his only suggestion was maybe reading "Stick and Rudder".  

 

I guess we will see how the upset flight conditions work for me. I'm sure I'll bring some motion sickness pills just in case. Maybe some flea powder as well  I'm hoping it will be a learning experience, but also a good time. 

[bonal]

Make sure to understand what will take place before it happens understanding the manuves Pryor to execution makes for better retention. When your instructor is demonstrating each event be sure to know your viewing points by that I mean looking in the correct direction to help with spatial orientation this will help reduce any motion sickness you may have. When I was given a ride in the Eagle my PIC would tell me in advance to look this way then that way etc as each manuve was performed. Man what a ride that thing had over 300hp and only weighs around 1000 pounds. Have fun I hope I can return for the second syllabus this year.

[rbp]

here's another: a flat spin. boy are we spinning!

[fantom]

here's another: a flat spin. boy are we spinning!

Excellent recovery!

[rbp]

except for the accelerated stall on pull-out!  it happens real fast, and you can see the whole plane shake

[cliffy]

Bob Hoover got sick for many hours when he was first learning to fly. He just pushed through it. 

[ryoder]

I tried to do a wing over in the flight sim today with a 201 and ended up overspeeding it and died. I think I'll try again but pitch up before entry.