KSMooniac Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 The Federal Reserve appears to have better knowledge/control today, than they did at anytime in the last century... I wouldn't go that far! I think they're just doing a better job of pulling the wool over our eyes, and the press is aiding and abetting. Sooner or later the ill effects of printing trillions of dollars will come home to roost, and it won't be pretty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple8s Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I seriously doubt fuel prices are going to stay put, we have been told what it (price per gal.) "ought" to be and it is way below that right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 My local auto gas prices have already gone up .45-.50 since they bottomed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Definitely needs to go down and stay down for some time. Even the TV pundits are not taking a guess at how long the current situation can last. Stability is hard to come by... Just my thoughts, nothing more, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybgoode Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Some optimism - two years community college AAS degree in Engineering (scholarships for 100%), in-state at Virginia Tech for BSEE finishing in '99. Paid for by self working underground in a coal mine one summer then as an EE intern for Union Carbide next three summers. Total debt $6k. Full time offer from Carbide in '99 of $55k. Began USAF pilot training in 2000 - sooner than expected, due to needs of military. Finished in late '01. Debt gone by 2003. Several years of military (Air National Guard) flying. Now Delta and continued military. Life is good, for now. I only have a '65 C (and an RV-4) so it's obvious that I don't go for high-dollar planes. Tell your kids, like I tell my 4, to study hard and that they're never too young to work hard. Target a good degree, not some fluffy one that's worthless. And keep learning from the older ones around them. Live simply, be generous. The world has definitely changed, but a good life is not unachievable, for most of us. Just my 2 cents... Patrick 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybgoode Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Just a simple VFR machine I bought already built. It had 100 hours on it - an 800hr O-320 D2J with a wood fixed-pitch prop that I've since replaced with one by Craig Catto designed for cruise performance. I've painted it - will include a pic if I can. It is to commute from my home in NC to my military obligations in WV. Pure fun, and burns about 8.5 per hour for 200mph typical ground speeds at about 8,500. Total empty weight is 996 so that 160hp isn't really working too hard. I can understand keeping the Mooney - the 8's are nice but there's definitely more utility to be had in a 4-seater for most people. One of my more recent pics, but since I've checkered the rudder - blue and silver - matched the prop tips, and put a POW emblem on the vertical stab. No good pics on photobucket of all that though... Edit - that didn't work - just meant for the link to be in here...sorry guys Patrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybgoode Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/cpberry1/image.jpg2_zpsx7f7dghs.jpg See if this works better... And its more familiar stablemate... http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/cpberry1/image.jpg1_zps8kxcn4dj.jpg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 That is interesting! The challenge of having a second plane came to mind... 1) indoor storage costs 2) cost of second plane's annual An experimental aircraft stored like in this picture starts to make sense..! Thanks for taking the effort to post the photo. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybgoode Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Reasonable thoughts - and if I'd had the Mooney first the RV would probably still be sitting in the back of someone else's hangar covered in dust. It's an interesting story perhaps I'll tell sometime if anyone cares to listen... My last RV "annual" cost me $100 with no squawks - great group of guys in the experimental world in my area S of Charlotte. Most love putting a another set of eyes on someone else's plane and the RV construction is quite simple when compared to a Mooney. As to my unique storage method - I figure if the Mooney wing can take the standees in that famous pic then the weight of my tail (40 or 50#) with some padded blankets and foam insulation in between won't hurt it any. It's kinda awkward to position it, so I probably won't be doing it in 40 more years, but it's working well for now, and will for the next 4 years until I retire from the Guard, hopefully. I briefly considered a lift overhead, but the engineer in me won out and out came a scale drawing of each plane and one of the hangar and that photo is the result. Patrick 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 70’s inflation masked the reality of what was going on. Stuff magically was worth more after wearing in... 80's automobiles ('82 Ford Escort) could be bought with man. trans., no radio, no A/C for $5k. $6k could get a mini pick-up. Graduating in 1987...4 years of engineering school cost about $60k all in, books, dorm, food, etc... A good engineering job paid $30k that year. For comparison... In 2015...1 year at the same school $60k. Internet Research indicates the same engineer graduating this year would be paid $65k. If you go Engineering, there probably won't be a new plane in the plan early on. Live in mom's house. Eat mom's groceries. Don't spend any money on anything else. It could be done. Just not fun... Best regards, -a- I did my undergraduate work at the university of Florida and four years all in was about 20k. Lived in dorms then student run coop. Books were almost as much as tuition cost per semester! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Anthony I hope your correct but nothing seems to make sense to me anymore and I'v been a CPA and in finance for over 40 yrs god I'm getting old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'd be willing to bet that the liability portion as a percentage on that J is a whole bunch smaller the portion on a new Mooney today. Who wrecked the industry? Trial lawyers and stupid juries! Clarence Not true at all. I am a trial lawyer and can tell you that principles of simple economics dictate that those of us who take on corporate America in big stakes product liability litigation are pretty good about seeing to it that cases are meritorious before they are pursued. These cases involve tremendous cost and contrary to popular belief manufacturers don't roll over and pay nuisance money to resolve cases. If a case is lost it is the plaintiffs lawyer who absorbs the cost, and like everybody else we are interested in making rather than losing money(not to mention incredible amounts of time) In a capitalist system such as ours, which is IMO the best system, like it or not the threat of such litigation is a necessary component of the checks and balances. By way of example only, there was the Ford Pinto and GM ignition switch cases. In each of these cases there was evidence the manufacturer knew of the defects and either made a conscious or tacit decision not to change designs because the change might cost more than paying for the carnage. And I can tell you that it is easy to make these kind of rants about trial lawyers and juries when it isn't your spouse or child who suffers that carnage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Everything has become disproportionately inflated and for lots of reasons liability not the least of them for sure. I dont think the cost of a new or even newish airplane will ever be close to affordable to 99.999 percent of the population there are clubs and patnerships that can help but lets be real here the numbers dont lie. When asked at an AOPA flyin a few years back the Vice Pres of Cirrus told me that over 65% of the cost of a new SR was to cover product liability of this I have no doubt. when you look at all that goes into a modern airplane and what those components cost and the fact there is little assembly line production its a wonder they dont cost more. I always find it interresting to see what those of us are flying and then compare it to the comments that are made with regards to economics or politics or ADS-B requirements. And dont get me wrong I'm not being critical its more about admiration for finding a way to cut a real successful path in life. as far as fuel cost at least even when it was close to 6 dollars a gallon it was not a big problem cause I fly a Mooney C but 2 dollars would be real nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 In addition to the liability, there just aren't the economies of scale anymore. Mooney doesn't reap cost of production benefits from turning out hundreds of planes per year. These airplanes have lasted a long time...and many people elect to buy pre-owned. A decade ago, a lot of these nice airplanes from the 1960s and 70s started to sit...most won't ever fly again. As this trend continues and USA exports of planes continue to emerging markets, we might see an uptick in new plane sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoder Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Maybe Obama can fix it with a cash for clunkers program for GA. They could crush my Mooney and have taxpayers pay me 40k for it toward a new airplane. Its the type of thinking we need in this great society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 I am a trial lawyer...those of us who take on corporate America... One can either spend their career developing vaccinations or developing antibiotics. The first earns partnership in a 150, the second gets you a Bravo. Let's not misappropriate nobility nor re-write history. There is zero evidence that liability litigation on aircraft built generations earlier helped make modern generation planes or flying safer. If so, please provide it for all to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Not true at all. I am a trial lawyer and can tell you that principles of simple economics dictate that those of us who take on corporate America in big stakes product liability litigation are pretty good about seeing to it that cases are meritorious before they are pursued. These cases involve tremendous cost and contrary to popular belief manufacturers don't roll over and pay nuisance money to resolve cases. If a case is lost it is the plaintiffs lawyer who absorbs the cost, and like everybody else we are interested in making rather than losing money(not to mention incredible amounts of time) In a capitalist system such as ours, which is IMO the best system, like it or not the threat of such litigation is a necessary component of the checks and balances. By way of example only, there was the Ford Pinto and GM ignition switch cases. In each of these cases there was evidence the manufacturer knew of the defects and either made a conscious or tacit decision not to change designs because the change might cost more than paying for the carnage. And I can tell you that it is easy to make these kind of rants about trial lawyers and juries when it isn't your spouse or child who suffers that carnage... Sorry to have offended, it would appear that not all lawyers have your high standards. One case which comes to mind locally, a fellow lands his PA23 upon re-start one engine won't go. Pilot decides to take off on one engine, naturally he crashes. Insurance company says it won't cover hull loss. Then a less than scrupulous lawyer takes on case, sues insurance company and wins the case. Insurance company paid full loss plus expenses to cover stupidity. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMuncy Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 I was a litigation attorney for a long time, on the defense side. There are many aspects of the tort litigation system I don't like, but in my opinion, there is not a better system. Tweaks can be made along the way, but in order for injured (physically or monetarily) folks to have a way to seek relief, there have to be plaintiff's lawyers. And the ability of good attorneys to sway juries is what makes the system both good and bad. Maybe we need to require lawyers to be less talented, so as to get adequate, but not outstanding results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Sorry to have offended, it would appear that not all lawyers have your high standards. One case which comes to mind locally, a fellow lands his PA23 upon re-start one engine won't go. Pilot decides to take off on one engine, naturally he crashes. Insurance company says it won't cover hull loss. Then a less than scrupulous lawyer takes on case, sues insurance company and wins the case. Insurance company paid full loss plus expenses to cover stupidity. Clarence No offense taken. Your misconception about the tort system is a common one. The truth is juries get to the right result the vast majority of the time, and our adversarial system is the best way of getting at the truth. There are many safeguards built into that system. Again, I am a huge proponent of capitalism but unchecked capitalism can have bad side effects. That is why for example the antitrust regulatory framework came into being. Another example is labor unions. Regards, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 all profits until 2005 now all losses.. It's Obama's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I guess we could all just do with a little less drama. This idea of suing the last 9 repair shops that performed maintenance on a plane before it crashes then finding one guilty party out of the 9 and then the lawyer making some bold claim that "the shop knew this plane would crash" as opposed to seeking out recompense while not denying we live in a fallen world where mistakes are made even by shops that aren't cutting corners and have good oversight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have a question. Say you are driving around in your 1968 Corvette and a part of the steering linkage breaks off and you crash and kill somebody. Can a lawyer go after GM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have a question. Say you are driving around in your 1968 Corvette and a part of the steering linkage breaks off and you crash and kill somebody. Can a lawyer go after GM? If it is the original linkage the answer is no because of the statute of repose, which in most jurisdictions is 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I guess we could all just do with a little less drama. This idea of suing the last 9 repair shops that performed maintenance on a plane before it crashes then finding one guilty party out of the 9 and then the lawyer making some bold claim that "the shop knew this plane would crash" as opposed to seeking out recompense while not denying we live in a fallen world where mistakes are made even by shops that aren't cutting corners and have good oversight. In this world a "mistake" = negligence. That is what insurance is for. I have it on my firm because I know I am fallible and if I am entrusted with a matter and cause my client harm I want that client made whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 In this world a "mistake" = negligence. That is what insurance is for. I have it on my firm because I know I am fallible and if I am entrusted with a matter and cause my client harm I want that client made whole. As a software writer I have a Errors & Omissions policy, just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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