Interesting situation on approach, what do you do?

**Oscar Avalle** · February 12, 2015

Yesterday I flew to a field that I normally don't fly to. It was IFR so I filed an IFR flight plan and was talking to ATC. I was handed over to a new controller about 20 miles from the field. Barometric setting and expect lower were the only two issues that were shared with me. 14 miles from the field, I got a call from ATC asking me why I had not joined the 15 miles arc for the VOR DME 15 approach. I apologized and tried to load the approach on my GTN 750. Now, it starts to become interesting... No VOR DME 15 was listed!!! Ok, let's not panic, it must be in Jeppview... no, IT WAS NOT!!!! So I looked into my old paper chart... Volah! here it is. So I was able to set up the approach and fly it and landed.

After clearing customs, I got a call from ATC basically wanting to blame me that I had not all needed charts for the flight on board. I explained that I was not given the approach and that Jeppesen had not included the approach in its latest update. ATC took note and closed the issue.

But, I am still thinking about the situation. What should I have done? We as PIC are supposed to ensure that we have all the available charts for then flight. But, what do you do, if JEPP does not provide the chart that ATC gives you...? Are you still on the hook?

yvesg · February 12, 2015

Oscar, where was this? and was there other types of approach available? I do not carry paper charts and would have been really stuck in such a situation unless other types of approach would be available.

Yves

**Jeff_S** · February 12, 2015

What airport? It sounds like it was an uncontrolled field, which means you should have been able to fly any approach you wanted. (I believe that's true even of a controlled field, but it's a bit more problematic.) So if there were other approaches available that would get you down, why did you not just refuse the VOR and take one of them?

MooneyBob · February 12, 2015

Interesting. More details please.

PTK · February 12, 2015

Oscar, you say you found it in your "old" paper charts. Was it an old approach that perhaps was decommissioned?

Did you fly a current approach or an expired one? I hope they didn't have you fly an expired approach!

Sometimes ATC makes mistakes. One time I had an IF given to me by its old name. HUVOX, RNAV 22 into GED. They questioned me if I had current charts when I told them I don't see it! Then they realized it.

**cliffy** · February 12, 2015

Interesting to say the least.

What was your last route clearance received before the hand off?

What was the route clearance you were given at departure? Was it ever changed enroute?

As was said, more info needed. What airport? Jeppesen has missed stuff before.

Marauder · February 12, 2015

Oscar, you say you found it in your "old" paper charts. Was it an old approach that perhaps was decommissioned?

Did you fly a current approach or an expired one? I hope they didn't have you fly an expired approach!

Sometimes ATC makes mistakes. One time I had an IF given to me by its old name. HUVOX, RNAV 22 into GED. They questioned me if I had current charts when I told them I don't see it! Then they realized it.

Peter -- I just flew the LPV into RWY 22 at KGED. HUVOX is the current IF/IAF. What was the old name?

Marauder · February 12, 2015

Yesterday I flew to a field that I normally don't fly to. It was IFR so I filed an IFR flight plan and was talking to ATC. I was handed over to a new controller about 20 miles from the field. Barometric setting and expect lower were the only two issues that were shared with me. 14 miles from the field, I got a call from ATC asking me why I had not joined the 15 miles arc for the VOR DME 15 approach. I apologized and tried to load the approach on my GTN 750. Now, it starts to become interesting... No VOR DME 15 was listed!!! Ok, let's not panic, it must be in Jeppview... no, IT WAS NOT!!!! So I looked into my old paper chart... Volah! here it is. So I was able to set up the approach and fly it and landed.

After clearing customs, I got a call from ATC basically wanting to blame me that I had not all needed charts for the flight on board. I explained that I was not given the approach and that Jeppesen had not included the approach in its latest update. ATC took note and closed the issue.

But, I am still thinking about the situation. What should I have done? We as PIC are supposed to ensure that we have all the available charts for then flight. But, what do you do, if JEPP does not provide the chart that ATC gives you...? Are you still on the hook?

You're killing us Oscar! There are 8 of us online, on your thread, waiting to hear which approach!

chrisk · February 12, 2015

VOR DME arc. Was this in Mexico?

Mooneymite · February 12, 2015

This sort of thing is not uncommon at all in international ops.

There are a lot of approaches that are not loaded into our FMS due to not being authorized by our op-specs, or various other reasons. When assigned an approach we don't carry, we just say, "Unable" and then tell them what approach we want, or are capable of shooting. Approach can't make you fly an approach you don't want, (but they can make life miserable if you are uncooperative).

I would be somewhat suspiscious of an approach not in the current Jepp database and probably request something that was current and installed.

Bob - S50 · February 12, 2015

Oscar,

The only thing I might have done differently when the controller asked why I didn't join the arc was to tell him that I had not been cleared for the approach. Puts the pressure on him instead of me.

Bob

MooneyBob · February 12, 2015

OOOOOssscaaaaar. Where are you?

201er · February 12, 2015

You could always say your DME went haywire and ask for a different approach ^_^

PTK · February 12, 2015

I don't remember Chris. I have to look at an old plate.

Edit. It was BOYSE.

Marauder · February 12, 2015

It is apparent now. The officials apparently did like Oscar's explanation. He is currently being held without bail at the jail located on the 15 DME arc awaiting his release to the IAF.

**Oscar Avalle** · February 12, 2015

Well, I just wanted to keep the suspense... I was not held without bail (although the tone of the initial conversation with ATC in El Salvador sounded as if I was in DEEP TROUBLE).

Actually I returned this morning from my trip and then I was tied up in meetings until now...

To clarify: the airport was MSSS (Ilopango, El Salvador). It is the largest GA airport in the country. It is towered airport, I will upload a video later of the flight.

I was not given a clearance and it helped tremendously that I always tape the ATC exchange... I actually played it to the equivalent FAA supervisor on the field this morning before I left and he apologized for their mistake. I agree in the US I could have asked for a different approach, but here... I don't know. I was not given an option. It was not: OK N9341V if the approach is not in your database, just fly the VOR 15 approach... It was more like, if you don't have in your database FY and figure out what to do. So, I ended up flying with an expired chart.

If somebody wants to recreat the flight it was:

MGGT AUR A770 YSV MSSS (VOR DME 15)

However, this morning I was again given the clearance and here again, the SID was not in the GTN database, nor in the 430. So I had to figure out how to fly it based on what i was told...

Well, otherwise the flight was simply incredible, scenary very nice and a hazy ILS approach into MGGT.

Oscar

ArtVandelay · February 12, 2015

I'd call Garmin up and ask them about it, I checked GP, it has NO instrument procedures for MSSS, maybe Honduras government doesn't publish the procedures in an electronic format can Garmin can pull in.

**Oscar Avalle** · February 12, 2015

I'd call Garmin up and ask them about it, I checked GP, it has NO instrument procedures for MSSS, maybe Honduras government doesn't publish the procedures in an electronic format can Garmin can pull in.

No they actually share it electronically... there are other approaches...

**Oscar Avalle** · February 12, 2015

This is the airport in question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilopango_International_Airport

**carusoam** · February 13, 2015

Oscar,

Thank you for sharing your flight's details.

I look forward to the next video.

Best regards,

-a-

M016576 · February 13, 2015

International ops... A US based avionics and chart manufacturer... When do you think that approach was last TERPsed.... Some of those are Shady! Glad cooler heads prevailed!

**Oscar Avalle** · February 13, 2015

I called Jepp Tech support. I explained to them the situation. The Tech support guy told me that the approaches should be there but that hat they will look into it and contact me. Let's see what happens.

**Oscar Avalle** · February 13, 2015

About 20 min ago I received a response from Jeppesen explaining that indeed there had been a consistency problem with the database and thus they had pulled those procedures, but that they put them back in the next cycle...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Oscar Avalle** · February 16, 2015

Here goes my video for my flight from Guatemala to El Salvador.

Oscar

http://youtu.be/TWSJwToNeZQ

bonal · February 17, 2015

You guys with your go pros are like movie producers we are gonna have to organize a Mooney Space academy award.

For best landing sequence the nominees are ...

Sign In

Interesting situation on approach, what do you do?

Recommended Posts

Oscar Avalle

yvesg

Jeff_S

MooneyBob

PTK

cliffy

Marauder

Marauder

chrisk

Mooneymite

Bob - S50

MooneyBob

201er

PTK

Marauder

Oscar Avalle

ArtVandelay

Oscar Avalle

Oscar Avalle

carusoam

M016576

Oscar Avalle

Oscar Avalle

Oscar Avalle

bonal

Join the conversation

Members Online

Browse

Activity

Important Information