Flaps wont retract

[N201MKTurbo]

I never did partial flap extension, I always just put them all the way down on downwind just before base. Why increase your workload.

No reason not to go to full flaps, just pump till they are all the way down and don't push any more.

It is better to look at the flap indicator then counting pumps.

The Mooney flaps are so ineffective that you can do what ever you want and you will be OK.

(As long as you don't take off with them up)

[ryoder]

Good point about workload. I tend to not go full until I can tell how gusty it is on final though.

I don't look at the indicator. I just look outside at the flaps

[Wildhorsesracing]

Good point about workload. I tend to not go full until I can tell how gusty it is on final though.

I don't look at the indicator. I just look outside at the flaps

 

I usually go full flaps on base - and I usually just look outside at the flaps as well - 

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/33252-/

[DrBill]

Indicator ? you mean there is an indicator somewhere ?    Just kidding,  but it sure is not in a good place to go looking at it while on final while a glance out the window does the job nicely.

[Andy95W]

I've owned two different Mooneys and do the same thing I've always done: count pumps.

2 pumps for takeoff

2 pumps on downwind

3rd pump on base

4th pump (plus 1/2 pump) on final.

After hydraulic flap work, it takes 5 pumps for full flaps. Within 6 months it is down to 4 1/2 pumps and stays there.

[carusoam]

Andy,

Does your first pump actually move the flaps any?

My C was similar to your description. But the first pump barely moved anything.

Best regards,

-a-

[bonal]

I use airspeed as indicators for gear and flaps. As I enter the pattern and airspeed hits 120 that means gear down when it hits 100 that means flaps down. Only drop to take off position so if I have a go around I'm already set for the power up. I get equal movement with each pump of the lever. Last annual we replaced the hydrolic lines cause they were getting stiff and after bleeding the system my mech adjusted the rate that they retract slowing them down some so when they retract I don't get a more abrupt nose up which makes it easier to adjust trim as they retract. Not sure how he set the speed they retract but as we adjusted them I could visually see a difference in how fast they would retract. Apparently there is a way to adjust this but since I was in the plane working the flaps I could not see what he was doing to make the adjustment.

[carusoam]

It's a simple needle valve adjustment. The setting is measured in seconds it takes to raise.

The difference is in actual flight there will be more air pressure involved so the actual retract time is faster than the set time on the ground...

The service manual will give the details...

Best regards,

-a-

[bonal]

It's a simple needle valve adjustment. The setting is measured in seconds it takes to raise.

The difference is in actual flight there will be more air pressure involved so the actual retract time is faster than the set time on the ground...

The service manual will give the details...

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks, when I asked him about the rate he indicated exactly that. In flight they operate just right.

[carusoam]

If they operate too quickly...

They will dump lift in seconds and give you a surprise change in attitude to match.

It would be hard to recover from a simple distraction of operating the flap lever on final...

Trying to modulate the flap valve while flying is definitely a bad plan A:

'Modulate' is the word I use to describe slightly opening the valve to adjust the flow of fluid. It requires too much attention at a very busy time. If it is not done properly, the flaps snap up into their stowed position.

During a Go Around it would make a worse Plan B...

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

Its not actually a needle valve, and the adjustment is rather tricky to get just right. If I recall correctly the adjustment screw is about a 3/8 inch screw with a jamb nut. the screw has a flat face that covers about a 1/4 inch port. The gap between the screw and port sets the rate. Just tightening the jamb nut can take it from instantly going up to not going up at all. I recall it takes about 15 minuets of fussing with it to get it right. If you have someone giving a moderate amount of up force (very precise scientific term) to the flaps on the ground you will have the correct rate in flight. I would be laying on the creeper adjusting the valve and applying the up force and precisely measuring the time (one Mississippi, two Mississippi) while the helper was in the cockpit working the pump.

[bonal]

Its not actually a needle valve, and the adjustment is rather tricky to get just right. If I recall correctly the adjustment screw is about a 3/8 inch screw with a jamb nut. the screw has a flat face that covers about a 1/4 inch port. The gap between the screw and port sets the rate. Just tightening the jamb nut can take it from instantly going up to not going up at all. I recall it takes about 15 minuets of fussing with it to get it right. If you have someone giving a moderate amount of up force (very precise scientific term) to the flaps on the ground you will have the correct rate in flight. I would be laying on the creeper adjusting the valve and applying the up force and precisely measuring the time (one Mississippi, two Mississippi) while the helper was in the cockpit working the pump.

That's what we did he got perfect on the first try this guy really knows how to work on Moonies. On departure full up on the lever flaps come not too fast one push on the trim and I'm set for hands free climb. I don't know if this is "correct" but it's perfect for me.

[carusoam]

The hard part is when you have to go back and adjust again...

All those screws and sheet metal, again.

Wish MS was there, then!

Best regards,

-a-