kevinw Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 I'm seriously considering installing an Aspen PFD in my J and the installer is recommending the EA100 adapter that provides digital to analog data conversion from the PFD to the autopilot. I have a Century 21 AP with an S-Tec Pitch Stabilization System in the airplane. I understand how the box works but wondering how much of a difference it will really make in the overall performance of the AP. Do you guys think this would be money well spent or not? It's a $3500 add with labor. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 how are you going to get signal to the A/P without it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 how are you going to get signal to the A/P without it?Tom is correct. The EA100 can replace your attitude indicator using the AHRS to drive autopilot input. It serves as the digital to analog interface required to drive your autopilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 In my aspen install the original AI, remaining as the backup, drives the AP. GPSS works fine. I don't believe that I have the EA100. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 In my aspen install the original AI, remaining as the backup, drives the AP. GPSS works fine. I don't believe that I have the EA100. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Larry -- you're right. I went back and read up on the EA100. It is not mandatory but if it is installed, will drive the AP using the AHRS from the Aspen. What are you using to drive the GPSS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 In my aspen install the original AI, remaining as the backup, drives the AP. GPSS works fine. I don't believe that I have the EA100. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk My Aspen 1000PRO PDF (@ $8995 plus installation, 2 years ago) included an ACU which is mounted in the aft fuselage and drives the (analog) STEC50 in GPSS mode beautifully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinw Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 He said by installing the EA100 he could remove the century gyro that currently drives the autopilot. If there is ever a problem with the PFD the autopilot would kick off whereas if the gyro malfunctioned the autopilot would follow the erroneous data. Aspen also touts better reliability. I'm just wondering if it will capture approaches better and perform better overall. It's not mandatory he said, just recommended. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 He said by installing the EA100 he could remove the century gyro that currently drives the autopilot. If there is ever a problem with the PFD the autopilot would kick off whereas if the gyro malfunctioned the autopilot would follow the erroneous data. Aspen also touts better reliability. I'm just wondering if it will capture approaches better and perform better overall. It's not mandatory he said, just recommended. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Kevin -- I can't speak to the improvement of the attitude based autopilots on the Aspen AHRS since my STEC is a unit based on the turn coordinator. But the AHRS version should provide better input to the autopilot since it isn't relying on the gyroscopic input from your attitude indicator. All I know was that my autopilot has been a heck of lot more crisp in capturing courses since the Aspen installation. Aspen installations require that you keep a backup attitude indicator. So, if your Century autopilot is using the primary AI (i.e not hidden but visible in front of you), it will need to stay in the panel -- even if it is not connected to the autopilot. The reason I said "not hidden" is because I have seen some STEC installations where the turn coordinator is in the avionics bay. If you elect to have a dual Aspen installation, you have more options. With the extended battery pack on the MFD, you can eliminate both your airspeed indicator and altimeter. Also, reading through the EA100 documentation on the Aspen website, it looks like a dual installation will allow you some redundancy for the AP control. My installation has a throw over switch which allows me to use the MFD for autopilot control in case of reversion (if the PFDS were to fail). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 I think there is some confusion here. There are two remote boxes possible in an Aspen install: 1) Analog Converter Unit (ACU.) This is generally included and used to interface older electronics to the Aspen. It also emulates the HSI outputs to the autopilot. 2) EA100. This emulates the AI for the autopilot. If you don't have the EA100, you need your original AI for the autopilot. I have the ACU but no EA100. I have a single tube Aspen, GTN650, and a KAP100 autopilot. I have the original AI both as the standby AI and to send attitude info to the autopilot. GPSS and the autopilot work great. I don't see how the EA100 would improve the performance of my current system. If you wanted to remove your existing AI, perhaps to replace with an electronic standby unit, then you would need the EA100. Personally, I kind of like the idea of having a vacuum driven standby AI. The only downside of my system is that if the standby AI or vacuum system fail, I lose the autopilot too. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Chris, GPS, VOR, and ILS all supplied by the GTN? Or do you have another switch for the different nav input? We have an audio panel for sound control... But not much for nav source and display switching... I have a switch and a standardized blue light to indicate nav source... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Chris, GPS, VOR, and ILS all supplied by the GTN? Or do you have another switch for the different nav input? We have an audio panel for sound control... But not much for nav source and display switching... I have a switch and a standardized blue light to indicate nav source... Best regards, -a- Anthony -- the Aspen will take Nav signals from the GTN as well as my Narco radio. The switching is done both at the Aspen and the GTN. The center button of the Aspen controls what is used by the HSI. It will cycle through all of the available NAV signals from both radios. In this picture, you can see the GPS Nav signal from the GTN displayed as GPS1. In the upper left corner of the Aspen HSI it is displaying the next waypoint, the bearing to the waypoint and the time/distance to it. The unit is also capable of displaying two other signals as RMI needles. In the same picture you will see the GPS1 is being displayed as the first RMI needle (it is under the HSI needle). This is controlled by the left button. The right button controls what Nav signal is displayed by the second RMI. This is a double needle shown in the picture. It is set to shown the number 2 Nav which in my case is the Narco VOR. If you press the CDI on the GPS, the VLOC will be displayed on the Aspen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 I need to get one of those buttons... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinw Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Kevin -- I can't speak to the improvement of the attitude based autopilots on the Aspen AHRS since my STEC is a unit based on the turn coordinator. But the AHRS version should provide better input to the autopilot since it isn't relying on the gyroscopic input from your attitude indicator. All I know was that my autopilot has been a heck of lot more crisp in capturing courses since the Aspen installation. Aspen installations require that you keep a backup attitude indicator. So, if your Century autopilot is using the primary AI (i.e not hidden but visible in front of you), it will need to stay in the panel -- even if it is not connected to the autopilot. The reason I said "not hidden" is because I have seen some STEC installations where the turn coordinator is in the avionics bay. If you elect to have a dual Aspen installation, you have more options. With the extended battery pack on the MFD, you can eliminate both your airspeed indicator and altimeter. Also, reading through the EA100 documentation on the Aspen website, it looks like a dual installation will allow you some redundancy for the AP control. My installation has a throw over switch which allows me to use the MFD for autopilot control in case of reversion (if the PFDS were to fail). Thanks for the great information. I think I'm going to go ahead with the EA100. My installer called today and told me about half do it and half don't. I'm leaning towards the single tube aspen but I sure like how you can switch AP sources. I assume your MFD has backup PFD capability (aspen 2000). The only reason I'm still considering the dual screen is there's a $1500 rebate on the 1500 series and $2000 on the 2000 series. Thanks for the help! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 If you can afford the Aspen 2000 I would go for it. In addition to full redundancy, if you purchase the one with the extended backup, you can drop the ASI and altimeter. Take a look at this YouTube video to show what the second MFD looks like. http://youtu.be/o-B_9SzekTo Thanks for the reminder. I should make a video to show how the Aspen 2000 does its reversion thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Anthony -- the Aspen will take Nav signals from the GTN as well as my Narco radio. The switching is done both at the Aspen and the GTN. If the Aspen goes TU, do you switch the Narco to a 2nd VOR,HSI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 If the Aspen goes TU, do you switch the Narco to a 2nd VOR,HSI?If the PFD goes belly up, I can switch to reversion mode and convert the MFD into a PFD. The MFD is a PFD that is running firmware to allow it to be a moving map until you need it to be a PFD. Here is a shot of the MFD displaying a separate attitude indicator (powered by its own AHRS), terrain map and a Nav map: Here is a picture of the MFD acting as an HSI while the primary PFD is doing its own thing. If I wanted to, I could set up the unit on the left to show an ILS from the GTN while having the unit on right show the same ILS on the right using the MFD's HSI. The difference is the HSI on the right will show the vertical guidance on the HSI as opposed to the AI. If you truly lost the PFD. You hit the red button on the MFD and it ports over all of the Nav and PFD information to populate it. The PFD and MFD are constantly talking to each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinw Posted December 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Very cool. This has me thinking... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Is there anyway to display airspace, like Class B or C on the MFD or PFD?. One of my hangar neighbors got a nice A36 with dual Aspens and he thought it could show airspace. Here in Florida circumnavigating Class B or C is more important than the mountains. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Is there anyway to display airspace, like Class B or C on the MFD or PFD?. One of my hangar neighbors got a nice A36 with dual Aspens and he thought it could show airspace. Here in Florida circumnavigating Class B or C is more important than the mountains. José I get airspace depiction on the Garmin moving maps, GTN 750 and GPS 696, but not on the Aspen PFD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yes, airspace can be displayed on the MFD. You MUST HAVE the Jeppesen data on the SD card and the declutter setting must be any other than L from the MFD manual......... The Range +/- button and the Map Hot Key allow the pilot to control the map range1 and provide feature declutter. The current map range and declutter settings are shown in the lower left corner of the VIEW. Additionally, more detailed customization is available from the main menu, giving the pilot control over the symbols that can be shown on the map: • Airports • Hydrographic Features2 • Cultural Boundaries2 • Highways • Airspace Boundaries2 5.1.1. General Map Settings There are several options available to customize the Navigation Map VIEW. The default settings for the Navigation Map VIEW are found in the Main Menu on the GENERAL SETTINGS page and two MAP SETTINGS pages1. Based on your flying preferences you may want to change the Navigation Map orientation and other items you want to display. The default Map General Settings options are described in Table 5-3. Main Menu Page Menu Label Available Settings Default Setting GENERAL SETTINGS NAV MAP ORIENTATION N-UP MODE HDG-UP MODE TRK-UP MODE N-UP MODE AUTO RANGE ENABLE/DISABLE ENABLE MAP SETTINGS A CONTROLLED AIRSPACE AUTO / OFF AUTO SPECIAL USE AIRSPACE AUTO / OFF AUTO FLT PLN & WPTS ON / OFF ON INTRS AUTO / OFF AUTO VORS AUTO / OFF AUTO MAP SETTINGS B NDBS AUTO / OFF AUTO HARD SURFACE APTS AUTO / OFF AUTO OTHER APTS AUTO / OFF AUTO TRANSPORTATION AUTO / OFF AUTO BOUNDARIES AUTO / OFF AUTO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I get airspace depiction on the Garmin moving maps, GTN 750 and GPS 696, but not on the Aspen PFD. Yes, airspace can be displayed on the MFD. You MUST HAVE the Jeppesen data on the SD card and the declutter setting must be any other than L from the MFD manual......... The Range +/- button and the Map Hot Key allow the pilot to control the map range1 and provide feature declutter. The current map range and declutter settings are shown in the lower left corner of the VIEW. Additionally, more detailed customization is available from the main menu, giving the pilot control over the symbols that can be shown on the map: • Airports • Hydrographic Features2 • Cultural Boundaries2 • Highways • Airspace Boundaries2 5.1.1. General Map Settings There are several options available to customize the Navigation Map VIEW. The default settings for the Navigation Map VIEW are found in the Main Menu on the GENERAL SETTINGS page and two MAP SETTINGS pages1. Based on your flying preferences you may want to change the Navigation Map orientation and other items you want to display. The default Map General Settings options are described in Table 5-3. Main Menu Page Menu Label Available Settings Default Setting GENERAL SETTINGS NAV MAP ORIENTATION N-UP MODE HDG-UP MODE TRK-UP MODE N-UP MODE AUTO RANGE ENABLE/DISABLE ENABLE MAP SETTINGS A CONTROLLED AIRSPACE AUTO / OFF AUTO SPECIAL USE AIRSPACE AUTO / OFF AUTO FLT PLN & WPTS ON / OFF ON INTRS AUTO / OFF AUTO VORS AUTO / OFF AUTO MAP SETTINGS B NDBS AUTO / OFF AUTO HARD SURFACE APTS AUTO / OFF AUTO OTHER APTS AUTO / OFF AUTO TRANSPORTATION AUTO / OFF AUTO BOUNDARIES AUTO / OFF AUTO Bob - the Aspen PFD will only show waypoints, airports and your flight plan. The MFD will display everything. You can see the rings of the Philly Bravo and KILG's Class D ring on the MFD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Bob - the Aspen PFD will only show waypoints and airports. The MFD will display everything. You can see the rings of the Philly Bravo and KILG's Class D ring on the MFD. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421382139.811875.jpg Do you have to update the DB monthly? Cost similar to GTN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 When does the SV get added to the PFD? I need to intentionally stop learning things from that Presidential Barron collection of videos... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 This one shows some more of what it will show.. You can see the VOR rings, intersections, etc. When I'm IFR, I like to turn on the victor airways. Sorry for the crappy picture. It was a screenshot from a video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Do you have to update the DB monthly? Cost similar to GTN? I have both the Jepp nav and Seattle Avionics charts that I update monthly. The nav I think is $450 per year. You don't need to update it since the legal nav information is on the Garmin. But I'm anal about having current information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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