Needed: 1984 M20J avionics schematics

[flaflyer]

My avionics guy has run into major problems with removal of old R21 Loran that was installed in 89 and merged into the KFC150 and KNS80.  We are taking out the KY97/KNS80 as well and replacing with GNS430w.  The R21 install was not the cleanest, lots of splicing and modification.  The KNS80 doesn't match the schematics and avionics guy is looking for schematic specific to the original install done in 1984.  One from Mooney didn't help either.  Just wondering if someone out there has KNS80 schematic for a 1984 model.  

 

 

[OR75]

the KNS 80 install manual is not aircraft specific but rather dependent on what other instruments you have in your aircraft (indicators, autopilot coupling).

 

The only links to the aircraft are two wires: ground and voltage (these should be easy to track from the back of the avionics unit and one of them usually goes to a labeled circuit breaker). 

 

With time installs can get messy. But in this case you may want to be sure your avionics guy knows what he is talking about. 

[KSMooniac]

I'm guessing the Loran was done after it left the factory, in which case you would need to get a schematic from the shop that did the installation...which is likely impossible.  I suspect you're going to have to remove everything related to the Loran, KNS80 and KY97, and then start from scratch for the autopilot connections using a King installation manual and a Garmin GNS installation manual.  Not fun.

[N201MKTurbo]

You might look in your logs for the 337 (if one was filed) for the loran install. They sometimes have the schematic.

[Piloto]

I went through the same problem and opted for having the 530W as the single NAV source for the CDI and autopilot instead of having the multiple source switch. This simplifies the installation and does away with the switching relay problems. With the 530W I can select either GPS or VOR/ILS on the unit itself. I installed the 530W on the same space of the KNS80 and KY97, no need to relocate any radios, it fit perfectly.

 

José

[PWL]

The schematics are specific to your aircraft serial number. I can upload one for you if you post your serial number. I have an 85 M20J and my schematic is valid for only 8 aircraft.

[flaflyer]

I've searched the 337's, I've talked to the shop that did the work in 1986 and all they were really willing to do is imply my avionics guy is substandard and I should bring it to their shop, that and tell me all their records prior to 2005 have been destroyed.  Anyway, PWL I'll sure take you up on your offer.  My 1984 is 24-1482.  I'm eagerly anticipating your response.  Thanks.  

[OR75]

I've searched the 337's, I've talked to the shop that did the work in 1986 and all they were really willing to do is imply my avionics guy is substandard and I should bring it to their shop, that and tell me all their records prior to 2005 have been destroyed.  Anyway, PWL I'll sure take you up on your offer.  My 1984 is 24-1482.  I'm eagerly anticipating your response.  Thanks.

As i wrote earlier in this thread , i am afraid that the shop that did the work may be right in doubting the competency of your avionics person. Not sure how you picked him but it may be worth seeking another opinion.

[flaflyer]

He's an older (than me) retired guy that's worked all over the world, albeit on older tech stuff and just doesn't have many contacts any more.  He's slow, a bit stubborn about paperwork, and grouchy but fastidious and thorough.  This will be the 4th airplane he's done for me over the years plus my pitot checks.  And so far, nothing he has done has ever given me anything but good service.  And he works in my hangar and welcomes my limited assistance.  I don't save much $ with him but I learn quite a bit of useless information, get good work and don't worry about what is happening to my airplane.  This project is causing consternation but it will work out.       

[OR75]

He's an older (than me) retired guy that's worked all over the world, albeit on older tech stuff and just doesn't have many contacts any more.  He's slow, a bit stubborn about paperwork, and grouchy but fastidious and thorough.  This will be the 4th airplane he's done for me over the years plus my pitot checks.  And so far, nothing he has done has ever given me anything but good service.  And he works in my hangar and welcomes my limited assistance.  I don't save much $ with him but I learn quite a bit of useless information, get good work and don't worry about what is happening to my airplane.  This project is causing consternation but it will work out.       

 

what you/he needs is the wiring diagram of the avionics pieces that you want to remove or add. You can find most online. including the KNS80

- what indicator is it connected to ? 

- is it coupled to an autopilot ?

[Bill Dunn]

It sounds to me like your guy is trying to reuse old wiring? I would advise you to pull everything out that is associated with the Loran because the wire used in that time period could possibly be inadequate for the 430.

I almost never reuse wiring because of that reason. Plus when you install new you can tear out all of that nasty BS that everyone has left behind.

[carusoam]

Bill, your spell check has turned your Loran into an Islamic holy book?

-a-

[flaflyer]

What he wants to reuse is the original connector between the nav (kns80) and the autopilot.  Have the install schematic for kns 80 but shows wrong connector. Looking for period correct schematic (they are specific to ser#s.) Wants to restore it to factory configuration considering there will be other changes in the future. He's starting to think he may have to reconfigure it though.

Go figure, autocorrect thinks Loran from 30 years ago is the more obsolete?

[OR75]

What auto pilot is it ? The R51 loran would be wired the same as the Arnav FMS 5000.

You need to check but I believe that if you install a GNS 430 , the GNS has to drive the autopilot. You cannot have the KNS and the GNS drive the autopilot

[flaflyer]

AP is KFC150 w/KI256 and KI525. Removed the R21 Loran and the KNS80 to install GNS430W which will be the driver. Wants to use the pre existing kns80 connector but needs the pin out schematic for it.

[OR75]

What you need is the Ki256 and ki525 manuals. The autopilot picks it's signal from the indicators .

[carusoam]

Try the BK website for that. They post their owners manuals an install manuals on line....

Best regards,

-a-

[flaflyer]

I've got all the BK manuals. Problem is Mooney installed the pretty standard radio package for mid 80s, (kns80/kfc150/ky197/kx165) but apparently used different connectors from year to year. Used a 39 pin connector in mine but their schematic for that year shows a different connector. Then Cutter av. in Albq cobbed in an R21 Loran "according to manufacturer instruction". Lots of splicing in on both sides of the connector, changed some of the pins and of course didn't put specifics in the 337. Destroyed their work order, no longer have their R21 manual. My old avionics guy wants to use the original connector and restore it to original configuration but we can't find a pin out for it this specific connector. He gets obsessive about this stuff. I'm about done worrying about it. Just get it done.

[FlyWalt]

I've talked to the shop that did the work in 1986 and all they were really willing to do is imply my avionics guy is substandard and I should bring it to their shop, that and tell me all their records prior to 2005 have been destroyed.  

 

I hate it when so called "Professionals" bash their peers like that.

[OR75]

I hate it when so called "Professionals" bash their peers like that.

 

I am not a professional but have some experience wiring avionics. I do doubt the competence of the avionics guy.

 

The R50 is the same wiring as the Arnav FMS5000. Attached here.

[N601RX]

A 30 year old connector is just a place for a problem to happen. Most all avionics wiring today is device to device with just wires between them. Mooney likely put the connector there originally so they could lay the airframe wiring in early on and the plug in the avionics after the airframe was completely finished.  

[flaflyer]

Thanks for the schematic. Unfortunately, I had the R21 which was pretty much a different animal.

[Bill Dunn]

What you need is the Ki256 and ki525 manuals. The autopilot picks it's signal from the indicators .

You are right. The autopilot gets its drive from the indicator, most likely in your case the HSI. It's only 4 wires unless your AP can track GS then it is 8. I would still suggest replacing the wiring and eliminating the connector. We eliminate things like that because it is a failure point you can avoid.