What's it worth if anything? M20E

[scottfromiowa]

That doesn't include annuals, insurance, gas, oil and other operating expenses...

Have fun.

[scottfromiowa]

NOPE. YOU are NOT reading the original post....er.

[Turbo69bird]

I think I titled it appropriately, my question was "what's it worth if anything."

What I didn't post was the exact end use because until I dig in I won't really know.

The options are

1 parting it out.

2 fly it as is with little repair, then part it out

Or

3 (least likely) restore and keep.

The real question is to do anyone of these things, I need to decide what if anything is a safe price to pay for the plane as it sits.

What I was expecting is answers like:

$5k is a safe bet the engine core is worth that!

Or the plane has zero value here's why!

I can't imagine , planes have zero value, the scrap aluminum has to be worth something, engine cores must have a value, control surfaces must sell to those who have incidents/ accidents.

I'd kind of like to hear values you'd put on it as t sits.

[chrisk]

 

Regarding parting out an older Mooney... some of it might be easy to sell, but you'll need to have space to store it and time to remove and catalog things as well as answer questions and ship things out.  There have been a couple cases on here of vintage Mooneys with spar corrosion that led to scrap.  I'm not sure what the hull value of them might have been, but a wing swap might cost $10k or more and it is hard to spend that kind of money on a $30k or $40k plane.  Gear doors, hail-free control surfaces, etc are the quick sellers, but the rest takes a lot of time.

I do believe someone discussed the pros/cons of parting out an older Mooney.  --Yes there is some value to it, but it is difficult to say exactly how much. 

[HRM]

I bought my E four years ago and developed such a love affair with it that I call it The Mistress. If the plane is solid, no corrosion, and the engine is robust, then all the rest is fixable and when you get done it will be an indescribable joy to fly.

 

You can easily determine the amount of money that will need to go into it to get it to where you want it to be. I hate to see an E get parted out, but that may be what has to happen. Take it to Don Maxwell and get an annual. He will tell you the truth and will give you a prioritized list. He will also be able to tell you estimates of cost.

[N33GG]

The truth is, nobody here knows exactly what it will cost, nor what it is worth. But several of us have had enough experience with plane purchases and ownership that we can smell risk a mile away. Maybe you will get lucky with this one, but I wouldn't bet on it. When it comes to risk, this doesn't pass the smell test. FWIW, I have owned lots of airplanes and have lots of experience. I have been around enough to want to err on the side of caution when it come to planes.

Like I said, you might get lucky. And like I said, nobody here can tell you anything absolutely about value or cost with the information available.

Best wishes.

[bonal]

Cost is only part of the equation this ain't no boat and it isn't a hot car. You open up for inspection and oh look this airplane is not airworthy end of game. I hope it works out for you but remember the recent thread regarding the 20C that has corrosion on the spar and can't be flown without some real costly repairs. And that airplane had a PPI done on it and they did not pick up the corrosion that was obviously already there.

[DaV8or]

Keep in mind that you are about to step into a world that has little in common with hot rods or power boats other than most of your tools will fit. It is a world that has lots of new procedures and skills to learn, but most of all it is the world of the FAA, bureaucracy, regulation and paperwork. Do a search here for a thread caller "Mother F'in FAA" or something like that. It's a good story of what can happen when the FAA gets a look at your plane. You want to make sure all your paper is in order and everything is up to date. Check the logs. Are all the ADs up to date?

 

You sound a little conflicted. On one hand you say you like the idea of a turbo Mooney because it's fast and looks cool, but on the other hand you say you're likely to just part it out. Then there is the scary middle part, where you say you might just get her running, fly it a little then part it out. I say it's sounds scary to me because I wonder how much money and time you are willing to commit to an old airplane that you know you are going to eventually scrap? There are so many little things under the skin on a 50 year old plane that can rear their ugly heads and bring the whole works to a stop. For this reason I caution people that take on a project like you are considering to much like a kit plane. The factory built half of it, now you have to take apart, repair, replace and refinish the other half. If you go super cheap because it's just a beater you're going to part out anyhow, you're likely to find yourself gliding into a corn field, or worse.

 

This brings me to another idea for you. You seem like the type that likes to build, create and modify things yourself. An experimental plane seems more the ticket for you. How about you buy this plane, keep the engine, prop and turbo to use in something like an Van's RV-7, or a Glasair II and then sell the rest for parts/scrap?

[rbridges]

There is no such thing ass a low cost time builder....airplane.

 

you don't have to cuss.  

[carusoam]

I have a firebird...

What's it worth?

'95, LT1, 6sp, 190kmi, paint is burnt off by nearly two decades being outside...brake tubes have rusted holes through them. 14 sec 1/4 mile.

What would it cost to turn it into a firebird like yours? $80k?

What would I get if I parted it out? $800?

Seems like an intelligent person asking an intelligent question while wishfully thinking aviation is going to be more simple than high powered race cars.

Do you need to be a certified mechanic to work on firebirds?

Does your firebird make money?

Neither my firebird nor my mooney make money. They are expenses.

If you have excess cash, enjoy spending it in both aviation and firebirds.

If you don't have excess money there is risk in buying a project.

Tell me about who put the tail feathers back on it after the wire strike?

Don't be surprised when you come to a specialist website and announce that you might cut up a sacred cow if it doesn't meet your needs.

When you do this at the firebird site does anyone blink? If they do, do they use foul language to make their point?

Good luck with your decision.

If I were you, I'd spend a ton of cash making a perfect plane, then keep it forever.

Best regards,

-a-

[MooneyPTG]

I am all for good deals. The only difference here is a boat or car wont fall out of the sky when it breaks. Have an annual or pre buy done. If it is sound, go for it. I replaced the interior in my plane myself for about 2000 and 5 weeks of work. All material by spec and signed off. Old radios don't mean junk radios. I have an old king 175 backup radio that has never given me any problems. I also restore cars. A rust hole on a floorboard is no big deal on a car. Corrosion on a plane in a similar fashion makes it not airworthy. Hope this helps and remember this is an opinion!

[KJATCt]

I bought my 1965 E from a family member that was in similar condition (no turbo). I have since replaced almost all avionics, the interior, and the engine and prop. I now have another 60k in it. The up side if any is that I now have a great airplane and I was able to pay over time. The down side; it would have been far cheaper to just buy one with all that I wanted.  This airplane means a lot to my family and I and  we will keep it forever. I am not sure it will be cost effective to restore ANY certified aircraft due to the cost of FAA "blessed" parts. Just an opinion, hope it helps.

[NotarPilot]

"If I were you, I'd spend a ton of cash making a perfect plane, then keep it forever."

 

I couldn't agree more.  It sounds like you have several expensive hobbies.  Adding another could put a financial strain on one or all of them.  The airborne hobby should be the one to suffer last being that safety should be of the utmost concern.  Not only for you but those poor souls stuck to the ground by that pesky gravity.  Without knowing your financial situation or income this is something you'll have to decide.  

That being said, I have found my '78 J to be very reliable and "affordable" because nothing major has come up yet.  You should figure $1000 for a squawk free annual and maybe another $1000 for incidentals throughout the year on a really good airplane.  I'm speaking from my own experience here and I'm sure other will disagree.  Then you have insurance, which sounds like you'd be insuring for liability only, so figure a few hundred dollars a year.  Figure an oil change for $60 every 35 or so hours or every 4 months, whichever comes first (if you subscribe to Mike Busch's philosophy) and in theory you could have yourself an affordable airplane to putz around in.  I understand what you want to do.  Fly a plane, that you own, as inexpensively as possible if it can be done safe.  I suppose it can be done just know things can add up quick and you need to have a plan for that.  

[pinerunner]

I wouldn't let damage history be the deal breaker. Especially if you have an A & P friend to help you look over those specific areas.