flyboy0681 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Does that hold true for the EI transducers? I know they were dealing with issues with the Shadin ones. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk The note simply says "NOTE: The capability of using Sensor Data is available in SW Versions 2.00, 4.10, and later." 1 Quote
Marauder Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 The note simply says "NOTE: The capability of using Sensor Data is available in SW Versions 2.00, 4.10, and later." Thanks. I better start asking more questions... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
flyboy0681 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Boy does this thread make me want to go drop 20k on some Garmin's! Like I said earlier, I don't have any problems with its GPS capability or radio. 1 Quote
Marauder Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Boy does this thread make me want to go drop 20k on some Garmin's! Dave - I think this set of problems seem to be on a subset of the GTN radios out there. Perhaps there was something about a particular production run. Trust me, I work in the electronics industry and know that nothing electronic is immune from periodic quality issues. The issue here is complicated on whether the installers had some hand in it. Most if not all electronic manufacturers, regardless of industry, rely heavily upon suppliers of sub assemblies (if not the entire product). Keeping tabs on the quality can be challenging. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
Marauder Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Just a followup to my earlier post (#46). I am surrounded by electrical engineers. Heck I can't go to the men's room without tripping over one. I happened to mention my GPS dropout problem and one of these engineers who at one time in their career worked for the defense industry mentioned that interfering with a GPS signal is not that difficult and it is certainly plausible that what I experienced could have been done on purpose. Hmmm.... Anyone think this is a possibility? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
PTK Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Pete -- my fuel flow worked when it was installed. It stopped working when the shop installed 3.0 to fix another issue. I was told by 2 different shops that through 5.0, it still has not been fixed. The shop I last visited suggested going back to 2.X. Now that is progress! Clearly they are not well versed on the GTN. I wouldn't take what a shop is saying as gospel. They just don't know sometimes and they'll tell you anything! Have you personally contacted Garmin? And BTW Pete, Sarasota Avionics is one of the most well known installers in the country.Sent from my iPad using TapatalkChris, this means nothing if the individual or individuals working on a particular installation are amateurs! Quote
PTK Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Boy does this thread make me want to go drop 20k on some Garmin's! I'm getting ready to drop some more without any hesitation. Just waiting till after Oshkosh. Quote
Marauder Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Not disputing that. In between those" isolated GPS antenna issues" discussed on another thread and this ... 1) I have to balk before I drop that kind of dough into equipment that has recurring and unresolved issues. 2) It also makes me consider the wisdom of completely removing traditional equipment when designing installing a new panel. An ILS with an old KX-155 with glide-slope and a radio that still receives and transmits is better than a state of the art GPS that doesn't work/ or transmit radio calls. 3)e.g. in the medical field, manufacturers support their equipment and make their reputation by training the trainers/installers and certifying them. If a doctor prescribes an insulin pump to a diabetic and after setting it up - it doesn't work because the trainer didn't set it up correctly with the patient ... It still doesn't work. If Garmin cannot train, certify and maintain a network of qualified installers, then their reputation suffers. That's just how it is. Their equipment is only as good as it performs WHEN INSTALLED. Blaming the installers just doesn't cut it for me. It tells me not to buy Garmin, because the installers, who are, effectively, Garmin's representatives as well are not qualified. I don't know Garmin's protocol ... or requirements, but I hear the term "authorized Garmin dealer" thrown around a lot? If an authorized dealer can't install it correctly, then it is an issue GARMIN needs to address ... Dave - solid points. In my industry which does include clinical equipment, we certify our employees and those we subcontract to do work for us. I would be surprised that Garmin or any other avionics manufacturer doesn't have a formal tech training class. But maybe they don't. Trust me, to be sitting behind a GPS in low vis to have it dropped out was a sickening feeling (not to mentioned I was pissed). I was happy that my 20 year Narco was working away in the background with the ILS plugged in. It shouldn't be this way... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
JohnB Posted July 28, 2014 Report Posted July 28, 2014 Ok I am intently watching this one, and you guys are scaring me. Yesterday, my MX20 multifunction display had a message (attached) and then just went out. It recovered after about 4 hours of flight, but I think it might be dead Jim. My avionics shop will tell me shortly. I was thinking anyway of upgrading to the GTN 750 one of these days (may be now!) but it seems that some are having radio issues. I have noticed that nav reception through my low-tech bendix king radio through the same antenna has far superior range (and the com can get very distant stations by pulling the squelch knob) than through my 430 now. So im wondering if i can keep three radios in my airplane if i upgraded, (the two garmin ones controlling each other through the 750 and then the BK one all by itself as a low tech backup, since I probably wont get much resale from my Bendix King one and it works great now. So the bigger question im debating now is between salvaging my MX20 (not looking good), getting a GMX200, or going full Monty with a 750. Im glad Oshkosh is happening now, hopefully the best of all upgrades and fixes are out, right at the time I will likely need them! Quote
ArtVandelay Posted July 28, 2014 Report Posted July 28, 2014 If you want to keep your radio(s), get the 725 instead (same as the 750 without the com) 1 Quote
Mooney_Allegro Posted August 7, 2014 Report Posted August 7, 2014 Marauder, Just to give you an update. I had Sarasota Avionics replace both the GTN-650/750 under warranty. I then flew it 4 hours & pretty much experienced the same things as before. The GTN 750, which uses the top antenna had range/clarity issues while talking to JAX Center & Charleston approach while at 9000'. When I switched to the GTN 650, which uses the belly antenna, I was heard 5x5. The squelch breaks still occurred on the 650, but not as frequently as before. Both the squelch settings were set to 75, as directed by Garmin. It seems everytime I have a range issue, more times than not, the center or approach controller is off my left wing. Is it possible there could be a blind spot from my GTN 750 antenna while transmitting? I'll do some more troubleshooting for the squelch breaks by turning off equipment one by one to try to isolate a possible RF issue. I wonder if the transponder somehow could be affecting the 650 to cause squelch breaks, because it seems the squelch breaks don't occur on the ground, it's only when I become airborne, and the GTX330ES is activated only above a certain speed. I'm heading down to Sarasota in a month or two to have them go over the installation with a fine tooth comb, because Garmin says none of my issues should be occurring. What was the outcome of your issues? Quote
flyboy0681 Posted August 7, 2014 Report Posted August 7, 2014 It could be where the ATC transmitters are. My GTN has a "dead spot" in a certain area when I talk to Palm Beach approach while flying south bound about 20 miles west of the Palm Beach airport. When this occurs I press the squelch button and turn up the volume, at which time I can just make out the transmissions. My COM2, a KX165, also has the same problem. Quote
Marauder Posted August 7, 2014 Report Posted August 7, 2014 What was the outcome of your issues? No progress at this point. Going back to the original installer to have them go through the installation as well. 1 Quote
RocketAviator Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Posted August 7, 2014 I met with my Garmin rep who knew of my issues and said he would get with my installer that day and call me back. He did not. He also introduced me to what he described as the lead or at least a lead technical support for the Garmin. I don't recall his name. The first Garmin person I talked to said Garmin had not heard of these problems prior... I said bull S.... and promptly showed him multiple sites including the mooneyspace where a number of reported issues are listed. Also told him I knew of from first hand from my Garmin Rep who said Garmin did know of the problem and quit talking to that Garmin person. Bottom line I just got home Oshkosh and have no had any time to work on this but very disappointing with Garmin and beyond all I HATE having my chain pulled! The Garmin Tech Specialist suggested I have the coax as only one coax is approved and the antenna bonding and integrity of the antenna! All of which makes sense and I only assume the proper coax was used for the installation by one of Garmin's leading installers! I will have it checked but it is 500nm to my installer! Please let me know if any of you get results. I plan to work on this in the next 6 weeks as my schedule is packed full until then! Quote
larryb Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 When I bought my plane I had trouble with both radios. They were the original king 155/165 radios. The 165 intermittently lost 90% of its rx sensitivity. My tech didn't believe me at first but finally saw it fail on the bench. It wouldn't fail long enough on the bench for him to fix it. The 155 had very poor tx range. I suspected it was because the elt antenna was located 2 inches from the comm antenna, an install problem. I replaced the whole lot with a gtn650 and sl30. New belly antenna for the sl30. New rg400 coax all around. Moved elt antenna with the 406 elt upgrade. I have had no issues with range on either new radio. I mention this in this thread because king is not perfect either and install/airframe problems exist. One more point. Once a few years ago I had a strange problem with a VHF marine radio not transmitting well. The company even replaced it for me. The new one had the same problem. Turns out the installer (me) had used wire too small. There was a voltage drop in tx that caused the funky behavior. Fixed the wire and all was good. 1 Quote
RocketAviator Posted August 8, 2014 Author Report Posted August 8, 2014 larryb, you are right they all can and do have problems. This is not what I find to be the primary fault. what I have an issue with is not acknowledging there is a problem and not taking ownership of it. I have had the installer install new factory new units under warranty, supposedly all transmissions were checked for power output (I saw at least one of these tests in person) and lastly not following through with promises to call you back! I spent over 67k on this panel and most of that went to Garmin. What I also don't understand is the first 4 months I had no issues, then a firmware update which was to correct a fuel flow display issue. I am still waiting on the weather to be displayed on the G500 as Garmin sold me the system with that option! Bottom line very disappointing customer service. Quote
donkaye Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 larryb, you are right they all can and do have problems. This is not what I find to be the primary fault. what I have an issue with is not acknowledging there is a problem and not taking ownership of it. I have had the installer install new factory new units under warranty, supposedly all transmissions were checked for power output (I saw at least one of these tests in person) and lastly not following through with promises to call you back! I spent over 67k on this panel and most of that went to Garmin. What I also don't understand is the first 4 months I had no issues, then a firmware update which was to correct a fuel flow display issue. I am still waiting on the weather to be displayed on the G500 as Garmin sold me the system with that option! Bottom line very disappointing customer service. I don't understand the above complaints. I spent more than the above amount and I can't be more satisfied with the equipment that I have. Garmin did immediately replace under warranty a GDL 88 that had fault errors. I have excellent XM weather on the G500 for a monthly fee. In October the new G500 system update will be out and ADS-B traffic and free FIS-B weather and WX 500 Stormscope will be supported. Additionally, an updated terrain database will provide terrain resolution equal to that of the GTN 750. And there will be geo-referenced Approach Charts, so we won't have to pay the outrages fee to unlock Jepp Charts. There are a number of other new features that I saw while playing with the updated system at Oshkosh. The new system for the GTNs will be out later this month with too many new features to discuss here. Oh, and one major feature; update the GTN 750/650 or G500 with one card and have it update all of you units. I personally can't wait to get the new systems updates. 1 Quote
Marauder Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 I don't understand the above complaints. I spent more than the above amount and I can't be more satisfied with the equipment that I have. Garmin did immediately replace under warranty a GDL 88 that had fault errors. I have excellent XM weather on the G500 for a monthly fee. In October the new G500 system update will be out and ADS-B traffic and FIS-B weather and WX 500 Stormscope will be supported. Additionally, an updated terrain database will provide terrain resolution equal to that of the GTN 750. And there will be geo-referenced Approach Charts, so we won't have to pay the outrages fee to unlock Jepp Charts. There are a number of other new features that I saw while playing with the updated system at Oshkosh. The new system for the GTNs will be out later this month with too many new features to discuss here. Oh, and one major feature; update the GTN 750/650 or G500 with one card and have it update all of you units. I personally can't wait to get the new systems updates. I'm glad you don't need to understand them. For the rest of us, it has been a frustrating experience (18 month owner). Quote
PTK Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 I met with my Garmin rep who knew of my issues and said he would get with my installer that day and call me back. He did not. He also introduced me to what he described as the lead or at least a lead technical support for the Garmin. I don't recall his name. The first Garmin person I talked to said Garmin had not heard of these problems prior... I said bull S.... and promptly showed him multiple sites including the mooneyspace where a number of reported issues are listed. Also told him I knew of from first hand from my Garmin Rep who said Garmin did know of the problem and quit talking to that Garmin person. Bottom line I just got home Oshkosh and have no had any time to work on this but very disappointing with Garmin and beyond all I HATE having my chain pulled! The Garmin Tech Specialist suggested I have the coax as only one coax is approved and the antenna bonding and integrity of the antenna! All of which makes sense and I only assume the proper coax was used for the installation by one of Garmin's leading installers! I will have it checked but it is 500nm to my installer! Please let me know if any of you get results. I plan to work on this in the next 6 weeks as my schedule is packed full until then! You know what happens when you assume! Your installer is the one "...pulling your chain..."!! I never understood placing so much trust and willing to fly across the country for avionics installations! Combine that with an incompetent installer and this is the frustration you get! Good luck. larryb, you are right they all can and do have problems. This is not what I find to be the primary fault. what I have an issue with is not acknowledging there is a problem and not taking ownership of it. I have had the installer install new factory new units under warranty, supposedly all transmissions were checked for power output (I saw at least one of these tests in person) and lastly not following through with promises to call you back! I spent over 67k on this panel and most of that went to Garmin. What I also don't understand is the first 4 months I had no issues, then a firmware update which was to correct a fuel flow display issue. I am still waiting on the weather to be displayed on the G500 as Garmin sold me the system with that option! Bottom line very disappointing customer service. You need to fire your installer! But at this point you may be in too deep. Best thing is to have Garmin walk him through it. They will do that by the way! As long as the installer asks for help they will help. You need to direct your installer to ask for help because you're funding his training! Not all installations are created equal. Quote
Marauder Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 You know what happens when you assume! Your installer is the one "...pulling your chain..."!! I never understood placing so much trust and willing to fly across the country for avionics installations! Combine that with an incompetent installer and this is the frustration you get! Good luck. You need to fire your installer! But at this point you may be in too deep. Best thing is to have Garmin walk him through it. They will do that by the way! As long as the installer asks for help they will help. You need to direct your installer to ask for help because you're funding his training! Not all installations are created equal. Peter -- who did your install? Quote
Tom Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Not all installations are created equal. The high-end model of anything is typically reliable. That's one of the main criteria to be "high-end." Good engineers are supposed to design things for the rest of us idiots. A good engineer doesn't design something that requires another engineer to make it work. Can you provide a list of installers who will provide a fully functioning 750 without having these major issues? If you can't, you are full of it. 1 Quote
PTK Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 The high-end model of anything is typically reliable. That's one of the main criteria to be "high-end." Good engineers are supposed to design things for the rest of us idiots. A good engineer doesn't design something that requires another engineer to make it work. Can you provide a list of installers who will provide a fully functioning 750 without having these major issues? If you can't, you are full of it. Thank you Tom! I don't care to keep such a list Tom, you are capable of doing your own research I'm sure! I can tell you that my panel has functioned as advertised since day one, and continue to beautifully! Quote
Marauder Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Thank you Tom! Tom, I don't care to keep such a list Tom! You are capable of doing your own research I'm sure! I can tell you that my panel has functioned as advertised since day one, and continue to beautifully! Thanks Peter. Who installed yours? Quote
PTK Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Peter -- who did your install? Not the one who did yours! Quote
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